Author Topic: 20th Century Jewish brick wall  (Read 2410 times)

Offline Annie65115

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Re: 20th Century Jewish brick wall
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 09:38 GMT (UK) »
I canít see a Maurice/Morris birth listed; there was a Harry Moss mmn Phillips b Mile End in 1913. Perhaps this is him, but he perhaps he used a different first name as it can be confusing to have two people with the same name in the same household!
 
There was also an Esther b 1922 in MIle End who may well have been of this family; have you checked her out?

Probate is listed for Henry Moss who died in Brighton in 1901. You could request his will but I expect it will only confirm the family that can be seen on the censuses, without confirming that they are indeed your family.

I presume that Rachel b 1916 is no longer with us. How many children did she have? Can you quiz any of them some more about family stories? Iíve found that itís best, with older folk, to say, ďI found Xxx, does that sound familiar, could it have been Great Uncle X?Ē. Memories can be jogged, and people donít realise that even a tiny seemingly unimportant fact can actually be the sledgehammer that demolishes a brick wall.

(Iíve just helped a friend solve a problem with her Jewish early 20th century background - one word in the story changed the entire focus of the search!)
Bradbury (Sedgeley, Bilston, Warrington)
Cooper (Sedgeley, Bilston)
Kilner/Kilmer (Leic, Notts)
Greenfield (Liverpool)
Holyland (Anywhere and everywhere, also Holiland Holliland Hollyland)
Pryce/Price (Welshpool, Liverpool)
Rawson (Leicester)
Upton (Desford, Leics)
Partrick (Vera and George, Leicester)
Marshall (Westmorland, Cheshire/Leicester)

Offline Bookbox

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Re: 20th Century Jewish brick wall
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 11:58 GMT (UK) »
I'm now even questioning whether that is the correct death index!

I think you have the wrong death for your Harry Moss. This is from the probate calendar:

MOSS Harry of 8 Rose Glen Romford Essex died 13 November 1955 at 149 Grafton-road London N.W.5 Administration London 4 July [1956] to Vera Cullinan (wife of Patrick Cullinan). Effects £689 5s. 10d.

(Note that it is a grant of administration, so there was no will.)

This appears to be the death registration ...

MOSS, HARRY       66 
GRO Reference: 1955  D Quarter in ST. PANCRAS  Volume 05D  Page 436

ADDED
Buried at East Ham Jewish Cemetery ...
https://www.theus.org.uk/category/find-grave
East Ham   HARRY   MOSS   16/11/1955   Section I       Row  23   Plot 1530

ADDED 2
The electoral roll shows Patrick and Vera living at 149 Grafton Road in the mid 1950s.

Offline Bookbox

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Re: 20th Century Jewish brick wall
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 13:22 GMT (UK) »
A daughter Vera b.1927 I have found in records, marrying a Patrick Cullinan, but appears not to have had kids.

A memorial notice published in the Jewish Chronicle on the anniversary of Veraís death in 1999 (died 16 July 1996) list the names of her 7 children. At least some of their births can be found on FreeBMD, between 1948 and 1965.


Offline Annie65115

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Re: 20th Century Jewish brick wall
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 13:33 GMT (UK) »
Going back to the beiginning of the thread, what were the first names of the Witnesses on the marriage certificate?
Bradbury (Sedgeley, Bilston, Warrington)
Cooper (Sedgeley, Bilston)
Kilner/Kilmer (Leic, Notts)
Greenfield (Liverpool)
Holyland (Anywhere and everywhere, also Holiland Holliland Hollyland)
Pryce/Price (Welshpool, Liverpool)
Rawson (Leicester)
Upton (Desford, Leics)
Partrick (Vera and George, Leicester)
Marshall (Westmorland, Cheshire/Leicester)

Offline Josephine

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Re: 20th Century Jewish brick wall
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 13:44 GMT (UK) »
Buried at East Ham Jewish Cemetery ...
https://www.theus.org.uk/category/find-grave
East Ham   HARRY   MOSS   16/11/1955   Section I       Row  23   Plot 1530

Great find!

This would be the cemetery to contact and ask if Harry's father's name is on the stone and/or in their records.

Regards,
Josephine
England: Barnett; Beaumont; Christy; George; Holland; Parker; Pope; Salisbury
Scotland: Currie; Curror; Dobson; Muir; Oliver; Pryde; Turnbull; Wilson
Ireland: Carson; Colbert; Coy; Craig; McGlinchey; Riley; Rooney; Trotter; Waters/Watters

Offline JeremyS

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Re: 20th Century Jewish brick wall
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 15:00 GMT (UK) »
This is absolutely incredible!! Bookbox, Annie & Josephine you are absolute wonders!

I probably saw that death index in St Pancras and immediately thought that can't be him cos he was living in Romford. But yes you must be correct, I had done work on Vera trying to trace her family so indeed agree that she was living in Grafton Road. Apparently she & her husband Patrick had a pub in Kentish Town around that time. She then had another by Elephant & Castle later on hence why she is living that way in the later docs. I have only found Electoral Registers for her & Patrick, which (naturally) contain no children, so made the wrong assumption that she had none.  An older family member had mentioned she did have some. To track them down now would be amazing. A Rosie, & a Harry perhaps..? If anyone can find Census Records for Vera & Patrick that would be great. I know they were living at 346 Hillingdon Street, Vauxhall SE5 by 1962. I have no info on Patrick other than he was Irish (born or heritage I don't know) and had had an accident on the docks.

How am I able to see this Jewish Chronicle entry on Vera Moss/Cullinan please? Also any guidance on finding the pub License Vitulars (spelling?) would be fantastic. It makes absolute sense Harry would be living with Vera, as she was by far the youngest and was living with him at least until 1939. She & my grandmother fell out at some point.

As for Harry's death & burial, that is amazing information. I live in NE London so I'm tempted to go down to East Ham cemetery myself, also to pay some respects. Beyond what is written on the gravestone, would they hold any info in their records...?

To answer your question Annie, the witnesses on Harry & Rose's marriage cert are hard to read but I believe "R. Isaacs" and "Lewis Isaacs".

Offline Josephine

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Re: 20th Century Jewish brick wall
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 15:24 GMT (UK) »
As for Harry's death & burial, that is amazing information. I live in NE London so I'm tempted to go down to East Ham cemetery myself, also to pay some respects. Beyond what is written on the gravestone, would they hold any info in their records...?

It's probably best to contact them before you visit, because they can tell you if they still hold the relevant burial register and, if not, where it is currently held, and also what info it might contain. Plus, the grave itself might not be easy to find, so you'd want directions.

Another potential source of information is funeral home records. And, as suggested earlier by another poster, synagogue records.

Regards,
Josephine
England: Barnett; Beaumont; Christy; George; Holland; Parker; Pope; Salisbury
Scotland: Currie; Curror; Dobson; Muir; Oliver; Pryde; Turnbull; Wilson
Ireland: Carson; Colbert; Coy; Craig; McGlinchey; Riley; Rooney; Trotter; Waters/Watters

Offline Bookbox

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Re: 20th Century Jewish brick wall
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 15:24 GMT (UK) »
How am I able to see this Jewish Chronicle entry on Vera Moss/Cullinan please?

I've sent you a PM.

Offline sandiep

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Re: 20th Century Jewish brick wall
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 15:26 GMT (UK) »
Vera d 1996 and Patrick 1976 they were both buried in a  camberwell cemetery  southwark
Pender, Raphael,Lambert,Digby,Stent,
Dowell,cornish,mulley,Death,Rosier,
East End,Suffolk,Essex,Cornwall,Devon,London,  middlesex, hertfordshire                                      Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk