A Wedding photo family Conundrum.

[This Boy]

Good point Gan Yam about the hats indicating a likely Church wedding. I cannot find an old street map of Carlisle (any link to such would be appreciated as I have a modern Street guide which my head is rarely out of). I visited Carlisle a lot as a boy but have rarely been back although that will change when lockdown ends - I will be visiting for a week. Shakespeare Street does not appear to exist any longer. On the 1811 census the brides family are listed at 7 Shakespeare Street, CALDEWGATE, Carlisle. If they did marry at Holy Trinity church would there be a 'parish' record there of the marriage? I think we are pretty convinced in was 1882. Forgive my ignorance but would it be at the Church or the archive?

Great to think of our people living alongside each other all those years ago too Gan Yam.

[Gan Yam]

Here is a link to Arthur's plan of Carlisle 1880.  (Arthurs plan is much more detailed than National Library of Scotland maps).

Shakespeare Street is on there. If you find the Castle on the map (north side of the city) and follow the road in front (Annetwell Street) going west, just over river Caldew (Bridge street), the road then changes into Church Street. As it changes the road to the right is Byron Street and Shakespeare Street if off Byron Street.  The streets close by have poets names hence Poets Corner. You will see Holy Trinity Church at the end of Church Street.  Easy walk to the Church.

This whole area has changed considerably over the last few years! For reference on a modern map Stainsbury's Supermarket stands on the site and McVitties Biscuits is just along the road.  The Church is no longer there, but the plot is. The records for the church are held at both the Archives Centre and in the city centre Library.

https://cumbriaimagebank.org.uk/historicalmaps.php?file=008

Here is a link to Cumbria Image Bank, if you've not seen it before.  Lots of photos of Caldewgate  on it and this is also where the above map lives along with lots of other maps.

https://cumbriaimagebank.org.uk/index.php

And here is a photo of Charlotte Terrace, Botcherby.  Charlotte Terrace is still there.

[Gan Yam]

 "Stanwix" Sarah's sister, Mary Jane, married Charles Henry Kendall, probably at Holy Trinity Church  brother Thomas W Tipping is on the entry. Their first child Mary Isabella Kendal born 1882 mmn TIFFEN, so Tiffen could be relevant or the registrar struggled with their pronunciation and accents!

[This Boy]

Big thanks to everyone who has helped or tried to help me with this. I have made significant progress notwithstanding the puzzles that remain. I have particularly enjoyed looking at the configuration of the various streets around Willow Holme/Poets corner where these folks resided from the map that Gan Yam highlighted . I understand that Shakespeare Street was demolished around 1953 and that Carr's biscuits owned many of the houses to rent to workers. The bride on my photograph, Annie Skinner was a Forewoman at the factory. I haven't been able to find any photographs of Byron Street or Shakespeare Street but would love to find some.

Gan Yam, it seems that libraries will be able to open from 12th April as lockdown rules start to ease. They get liberated at the same time as non essential shops. If it were possible to check the Holy Trinity records for me next time you visit I would be ever so grateful?

Another thing I enjoyed was researching John Lowther Turnbull's police career. It is surprising what you can often find with a simple Google search. I came up with a clock that he was presented with to mark his 1910 retirement as a Police Inspector which is engraved with the details:https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/a-victorian-black-slate-eight-day-mausoleum-clock-1916-c-38ea5484df# If you open the link and click on item overview it says: Description

A Victorian black slate eight day mausoleum clock with circular dial set with Arabic numerals with presentation plaque inscribed ''Presented to Inspector John Turnbull, City of Carlisle Police Force by the Chief Constable Officers and Constables on his retirement after 26 years service, December 1910'', height 39cm.

[Gan Yam]

The bride on my photograph, Annie Skinner was a Forewoman at the factory.

The girls and women who worked at Carrs are known locally as "Cracker Packers" and there has been a small statue erected near the factory in honour of them.

I haven't been able to find any photographs of Byron Street or Shakespeare Street but would love to find some.

Photo attached.  Byron Street is the street that runs at the side of the Joiners Arms, marked on the photo. 

Gan Yam, it seems that libraries will be able to open from 12th April as lockdown rules start to ease. They get liberated at the same time as non essential shops. If it were possible to check the Holy Trinity records for me next time you visit I would be ever so grateful?

Last time lockdown was eased, microfisch machines were still out of bounds, but I will check the records as soon as allowed!

[This Boy]

Just wonderful Gan Yam. Thank you so much.

[This Boy]

After a few months away I am returning to my family history research and this problem in particular.

My first port of call was the 1921 census and it has uncovered a clue that may help solve the problem but certainly complicates a situation which is already a challenge.

So I find Sarah Ann Turnbull still resident at 6 Norfolk Street, Carlisle. She is head of the household, a widow and is aged 58 years and 8 months and born at Carlisle Cumberland. Occupation is home duties. There are 3 men resident with her. All are listed as brothers but one of them is listed as her half brother. He is James Sherlock Aged 42 years and 3 months born at Carlisle Cumberland. He is single, a process worker and confusingly is listed both as working for Scottish ? Limited at Carlisle and as out of work.

I am going to try to fathom what investigative opportunities this offers this evening but welcome any thoughts. I guess Sherlock will be from the same mother but a different father to Sarah Ann. I also not a significant age gap between them.

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Trying to trace James - he's not around much on censuses as he joined up in 1897 and is overseas in both 1901 and 1911

This presumably is his birth

SHERLOCK, JAMES
mmn        TIPPING     

Q2 1880 CARLISLE  Volume 10B  Page 510

[This Boy]

Hi Mabel,

Thank you so much. I think we can be sure that Sarah Ann was a Tipping not a Tiffen or Tiffin now. If Sarah Ann Turnbull's maiden name was Tipping and her half brothers mothers maiden name was Tipping I think that means that Sarah Ann Turnbull was illegitimate and that her mother subsequently married a Mr Sherlock. Would you agree?

Neil.