Author Topic: Twins born NSW 1796  (Read 682 times)

Offline Lady Di

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Twins born NSW 1796
« on: Wednesday 10 March 21 06:54 GMT (UK) »
According to 972 family trees and various books, twins were born at Sydney/Richmond on 18 February 1796.

They were Elizabeth & Philis, daughters of James (Convict) and his free wife Ann Somerville (var spelling). Many report they were the first surviving twins born in the colony but that might be just a good story!

I know that 99% of the family trees have simply copied dates from various books but I'd like to find the actual source of their date of birth.

Can't see it on NSWBDM, nor Ancestry, nor FamilySearch or FindMyPast or St Phillips PR's or St Peters but I believe this date is probably correct.

Where on earth did someone find it?

Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Thanks
Di
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Offline judb

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Re: Twins born NSW 1796
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 07:42 GMT (UK) »
Not early enough for your twins and no mention of the parent names - TROVE has a report of twins born to a couple at Kissing Point.  There's a mention of this mother having delivered twins eleven months prior.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/626167

Judith
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Offline majm

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Re: Twins born NSW 1796
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 08:05 GMT (UK) »
Both married on 19 May 1812,  see parish register St Phillips.  I will type up my transcript ofthe transcripts tomorrow.

Do you have any newspaper reports of the likely double wedding ceremony?  Was it in Sydney,  or could the St Phillips entry be a summary from transmitted records sent through to NSW chaplains?   Just that on the left hand side of the original register in that white space,  in that decade,  Sometimes Rev actually wrote age of bride and groom ... and sometimes date, place of baptism  :)  only sometimes ...

Do you have any obits for James or Ann?  Or for any of their children ...  :)

Did either James  or Ann die after 1 March 1856, in NSW ... if so, does the d.c. give then age for Elizabeth  and or Phillis, ..... 

Fingers crossed ....


JM
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Offline Lady Di

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Re: Twins born NSW 1796
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 08:41 GMT (UK) »
Not early enough for your twins and no mention of the parent names - TROVE has a report of twins born to a couple at Kissing Point.  There's a mention of this mother having delivered twins eleven months prior.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/626167

Judith

Interesting Judith - Poor woman, imagine having 4 children under 1 yr old in those times.  ::)

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Offline Lady Di

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Re: Twins born NSW 1796
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 08:59 GMT (UK) »
Both married on 19 May 1812,  see parish register St Phillips.  I will type up my transcript ofthe transcripts tomorrow.

Do you have any newspaper reports of the likely double wedding ceremony?  Was it in Sydney,  or could the St Phillips entry be a summary from transmitted records sent through to NSW chaplains?   Just that on the left hand side of the original register in that white space,  in that decade,  Sometimes Rev actually wrote age of bride and groom ... and sometimes date, place of baptism  :)  only sometimes ...

Do you have any obits for James or Ann?  Or for any of their children ...  :)

Did either James  or Ann die after 1 March 1856, in NSW ... if so, does the d.c. give then age for Elizabeth  and or Phillis, ..... 

Fingers crossed ....


JM

Thanks JM - I do have all the details of the twins double wedding including the fact that they were minors & well underage. They were married by Rev Henry Fulton at St Philips. No extra details provided. Parents died pre 1856 and no obit mentioning children unfortunately.

I was hoping that there may be some V- records that haven't been transcribed for NSWBDM but I haven't been able to check the original films.

Thanks for your help and suggestions

Di

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Offline majm

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Re: Twins born NSW 1796
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 10:37 GMT (UK) »
Ohhhh ..... Rev Henry,  his records are infamously scant in details .... but May 1812,  are you sure he was at St Phillips or was he transmitting from Hawkesbury to St Phillips .... I  will phone a rellie tomorrow    :)

JM.
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Offline Lady Di

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Re: Twins born NSW 1796
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 10:49 GMT (UK) »
  ;D Yes, the interesting Rev Henry. I've been reading about the life and times of the man - wonderful stories.

This is what I found re the good Rev and the dates he was at St Philips:

"Fulton was called to England as a witness at the court martial of Colonel Johnston, and on returning to Sydney in 1812, was appointed to St Phillip’s Church Sydney during the illness of Rev. William Cowper.  Next Governor Macquarie appointed Fulton to the position of parson at Castlereagh and Richmond, New South Wales in July 1814."

I can't confirm the accuracy of it but it does match with other records I've found.

You asked about obits - one of the twins died in SMH July 1866. Her death notice said she was "in her 70th year." Therefore born abt 1796 which matches her quoted birth details, surprisingly.

Di


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Offline majm

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Re: Twins born NSW 1796
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 11:04 GMT (UK) »
Trove .... just found he arrived back per the Mary to Sydney 9 May 1812 ... after giving witness supporting Bligh ... and with a commission commencing 31 May 1814 (not a typo) as Chaplain, so Macquarie appointed him deputy chaplain as interim measure,  so he could have married the girls. 

NSW bdm has two entries for each marriage,  vol 3A and vol 7.   Vol 3A has ceremonies from outlying parishes...  CA, CB, CC ...

But it's a grand question you have asked ... and we'll worth considering...  so lead on I say...

I did NOT type any apostrophy ... WELL ... is a real word... I hate these AI keyboards...  Turn them OFF ...

JM.
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Offline majm

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Re: Twins born NSW 1796
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 11:17 GMT (UK) »
In the morning I will look at the YES option at NSW bdm online indexes for marriage.... 1355  / 1812 and 1356 / 1812 and check for missing numbers ... although sometimes they will be for Churchings and othertimes they will be where Rev Cowper took up two or three entries to get the entry right ... he was ill ....and over worked and arguing with Macquarie over marriages and criminal intercourse and marrying beyond the sea when spouse known to be alive back in England... Rev Henry  had no such objections...

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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