Author Topic: Twins born NSW 1796  (Read 658 times)

Offline majm

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Re: Twins born NSW 1796
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 22:24 GMT (UK) »
Hi Lady Di,   :D  :D  :D

Biographical Database of Australia,  annual subs about $30.   https://www.bda-online.org.au/ 

Here's a possible starting point to look out for live twin births with both babies surviving in that era.

Samuel CRAFT 1763-1833....  per Salamander - seems that he had several NSW born children, including twins with Elizabeth DAVIES. The twins were William and Elizabeth born 1800.    William married twice - second wife was Ann McGRATH, daughter of Elizabeth SOMERVILLE.


Re missing lines...  Firstly I looked at marriages for 1812 for volume 3A ... so will hopefully obeying Lachlan Macquarie's General orders issued 1810 ...  See Sydney Gazette 22 September 1810 page 1. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/628072 - it was meant to cover 'all births and deaths' ... not just baptisms and burials conducted to C of E rites.   

Volume 3A for 1812 marriages sample  test run only, sorting the online display by Registration number from highest with district as C*  (reason ... to avoid results coming up for other volumes of line 1 etc, volume 3A will have the most entries as it is for NSW chaplains receiving transmitted records as well as actual ceremonies held at St Phillips).

(district of) CH - line 2230
CB - line 1550; 1433; 1431; 1427; 1422; 1418 - 1416; 1406-1405; 1403;
CC - lines 1439, 1438; 1434; 1428; 1420 - 1419; 1415- 1412; 1408-1407; 1404;
CA - lines 1437 - 1435; 1432; 1430 - 1429; 1426-1423; 1421; 1411-1409; 1402 - 1400;

CH is Christ Church, Newcastle.
CC is St Matthews CofE, Windsor
CB is St Johns Parramatta
CA is St Phillips

That's not saying that the ceremonies were held within the church building, rather that the parish register for that district lists the ceremony.  So we need to remember that both St Johns at Parramatta and St Phillips in Sydney Town were where NSW Chaplains were conducting C of E services and also were recording transmitted records of births, deaths, churchings and marriages ... umm... so volume 3 was not just holding C of E info, but of course the bulk of the info was C of E as there were not too many clergy of other denominations in the colony. 

Comment ... I have only taken a very very small sample, but it seems to have not omitted any line numbers there.  I have confirmed that I can still 'sort' each of the NSW BDM column headings separately.   This is very handy when looking for missing numbers or looking for null info in a cell.

I will wait for some of my rellies phoning me for suggestions for looking for 1796 era baptisms...  I have searched this morning online and yes, our Hawkesbury family from that decade - yes all of 'our' baptisms are still listed at NSW BDM ...  ;D

JM







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Offline Lady Di

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Re: Twins born NSW 1796
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 23:36 GMT (UK) »
Oh dear me, you have been busy. Many thanks JM  :-*

Christenings for the Craft family seem to be well documented in the early years as do many others in the Hawkesbury area. Even the twin's brother was christened in 1795 at St Phillips which was why I thought it odd that there was no documentary evidence for the twins birth on a specific date in 1796.

Looking forward to hearing what your knowledgeable rellies have to say.

Fingers crossed and many thanks

Di


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Offline majm

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Re: Twins born NSW 1796
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 11 March 21 00:43 GMT (UK) »
An assumption ... your Ann SOMERVILLE arrived per Surprize in October 1794 and died in 1802.    Your James SOMERVILLE arrived same ship, under a life sentence. 

Question ... do you know or 'almost know' who raised Elizabeth and Phillis ..... and where?  Hawkesbury or Sydney Town or Minto etc ... not really critical, but just may give clues as to which CofE clergyman may have baptised the girls....  :)

JM
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Offline Lady Di

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Re: Twins born NSW 1796
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 11 March 21 10:00 GMT (UK) »
Your assumption is correct

Prior to 1802 when Ann died the family appear to have mainly used St Phillips church in Sydney Town. No sign of twins' birth in their records unfortunately.

Looks like James raised the girls on his own.

James was with Charlotte Hartley ("Indespensible” 1809) from about 1812 for some years. 1814 shows them at Parramatta. He seems to have lived all over the place, Sydney town, Parramatta, Minto & Liverpool during the following decade or so.



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Online TreeSpirit

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Re: Twins born NSW 1796
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 11 March 21 13:34 GMT (UK) »
Even the twin's brother was christened in 1795 at St Phillips which was why I thought it odd that there was no documentary evidence for the twins birth on a specific date in 1796.

I wonder whether William George's baptism and death/burial occurring on the same day (10 Feb 1785) might have had something to do with that?

Offline majm

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Re: Twins born NSW 1796
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 11 March 21 15:37 GMT (UK) »
Even the twin's brother was christened in 1795 at St Phillips which was why I thought it odd that there was no documentary evidence for the twins birth on a specific date in 1796.

I wonder whether William George's baptism and death/burial occurring on the same day (10 Feb 1785) might have had something to do with that?


First Fleet did not arrive until January 1788,  The Somerville couple arrived October 1794. 

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline majm

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Re: Twins born NSW 1796
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 11 March 21 21:02 GMT (UK) »
St Philips registers ... from notes made by a now retired Clergy CofE ...

Births/baptisms
20 January 1795,  William George, a son for James and Ann SOMMERVILLE ....

Burials/deaths
10 February, 1795  William SOMMERVILLE, infant ...

So probably just a  typo in Treespirits post.

Convicts were expected to attend church services every week,  right throughout the entire penal era. 

JM

The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline Lady Di

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Re: Twins born NSW 1796
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 11 March 21 22:32 GMT (UK) »
I wonder whether William George's baptism and death/burial occurring on the same day (10 Feb 1785) might have had something to do with that?

Must admit I wondered the same thing. So sad to see how many babies died in the new colony.

Actually it was amazing that their son died but their twin girls survived - female constitution and all that  :D

Added: Thanks for the date adjust etc JM.
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Offline majm

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Re: Twins born NSW 1796
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 11 March 21 23:17 GMT (UK) »
Interim info,  ALAS, no sign of any extant baptism records for the 1796 twin girls…  but William survived for three weeks in the hot weather of Sydney town in Jan and Feb 1795 ... His mum likely had not ever experienced such a climate and may have been without any local female support to help her nurture her baby. 

From several of my retired rellies:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTZD-GQJ 
3 March, 1828.
Laurence HALLORAN and Phillis SOMERVILLE married.   He was recorded as aged 22 and she was recorded as aged 32.   That places her as born circa 1796. 

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTZV-N2C
19 May 1812 Elizabeth SOMERVILLE marriage with Michael MCGRATH.
And
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTZV-CJ3
19 May 1812 Phillis SOMERVILLE marriage with James DORSEY.

A rhetorical question or three !…

Would you expect that the 1828 marriage would have Phillis as a widow, and her surname be recorded as DORSEY or is the 1828 marriage for a different Phillis? If so, when and where was the Mrs Halloran born, raised, arrived in NSW, … 

If the 1828 marriage is for the same lass as married in 1812, what happened to her first husband? 

…….

On the 1828 NSW census, can you clearly locate both Elizabeth and Phillis? 

   
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/magazine/1828-census and
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/webinars/mini-webinar-the-1828-census and https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=810812.0

https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/census-musters-guide   

…….

Can you find James, father of Elizabeth and Phillis in the 1806 muster … if so, where, what doing, who with, … the girls would have been aged ten, possibly still with him ….     
…….

Have you considered they may have entered the Orphanage system  some time after Ann died?   https://www.australianhistoryresearch.info/sydney-female-orphan-school-1801-1818/   The thesis mentioned there is uploaded as a pdf – ‘orphan’ had a very broad meaning in NSW in that early era.     

JM   
 
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.