Author Topic: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829  (Read 338 times)

Offline frederickay

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Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 13 March 21 07:44 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Neale . If we take out the odd death ( 1831 ) my very logical husband said the time line with the two John Jutsum is  possibile if the same John Jutsum went to Australia as a very you g man returning to England as the article says in 1824 . He then marries 1827 ,gets into trouble and is transported to Australia in 1829 . I will keep looking , thanks for any help . Fred .
valentine.fairhurst,hayes,hammond,codling,rust.norfolk.deyrujo.jutsum.wharton.lacey,probert,prickett,preby atherley-jones.clifton ..london /china. judd, eubank , dixon , hine , airey ,park .twentyman , dampier , jones in suffolk , limby , derrick , stockwell..

Offline Neale1961

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Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 13 March 21 09:01 GMT (UK) »
I have no doubt that we are looking at one many - the same man. The thing consistent on all documentation ( convict indent, his son’s marriage record, probate and newspaper items), is his occupation as “painter and glazier”.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland)

Offline cupoflife

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Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 13 March 21 09:57 GMT (UK) »
Is this the same chap?  The others named arrive with him on the Surrey (2) 1829
Launceston Advertiser 7April1836 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/84751224 (2nd column lower half. His name is toward the bottom of the list)
March 29, 1836.— The periods for which the undermentioned persons were transported, expiring at the date placed after their respective names, certificates of their freedom may be obtained then, or at any subsequent period, upon application at the Muster Master's Office, Hobart Town, or at that of a police magistrate in the interior : —
........

Surry, 2.— John Jutson, 9th April; Thomas Murray, 4th do.; Joseph Wood, 1st do. ; John Smith, 28th do.

The Cornwall Chronicle 16thApril1836 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/65952049
CERTIFICATES OF FREEDOM
....

John Jutson, Surry, 9th ditto; Thomas Murray, ditto, 4th ditto ; Joseph Wood, ditto, 1st ditto ; John
Smith, ditto, 28th ditto;


Offline matthewj64

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Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 13 March 21 18:14 GMT (UK) »
His 1829 convict conduct record includes in the red writing 'once for housebreaking sentenced 7 years served it at the Retribution'
https://stors.tas.gov.au/CON31-1-23$init=CON31-1-23 (image 169)

Records for the Retribution hulk has John Judson aged 13y sentenced for felony Middlesex 21 May 1817, transported 2 April 1821.

Old Bailey trial page
https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18170521-33-defend286&div=t18170521-33#highlight

Convict records for John Judson to VDL per Countess of Harcourt 1821
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qep/

Conduct record includes 'Hulk report, sent at own request' and 'Stated M[other] at Chelsea'

John Judson 1824 departure on the Denmark Hill (as found by cupoflife)
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qeq/

M

Add: His 1829 Justitia hulk entry has his name as Jutsom alias Judson





Offline frederickay

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Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 13 March 21 19:33 GMT (UK) »
Hi Matthew , wonderful info , I am starting to trawl through it now . The timeline is possibile that the earlier John Judson / Jutsum could be mine transported in 1829 . The original only being 13 the first time round . Can you tell me what “ make a claim “ means . Were convicts allowed to return to England ? You have sent me a note about information being sent to the mother in Chelsea . My Jutsum family were from Chelsea . Also for many generations they were plasterers , glaziers and painters . It all seems possible that the one John Judson / Jutsum was transported twice ,,,,,,, But how does that account for the probate being sent to Ann Fulcher in 1831 when Joh. Jutsum is posting articles about his second wife in 1841 . Out of interest .. his brother went on to marry the daughter of the Adc to the King of Hanover and she was the grandaughter of the Marquis Don Carlos Martinez de Irujo . All families must have a black sheep I guess , thanks for your help , Fred .
valentine.fairhurst,hayes,hammond,codling,rust.norfolk.deyrujo.jutsum.wharton.lacey,probert,prickett,preby atherley-jones.clifton ..london /china. judd, eubank , dixon , hine , airey ,park .twentyman , dampier , jones in suffolk , limby , derrick , stockwell..

Offline Neale1961

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Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 13 March 21 20:18 GMT (UK) »
But how does that account for the probate being sent to Ann Fulcher in 1831
Can you explain more where you get this information from.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland)

Offline frederickay

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Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 13 March 21 20:30 GMT (UK) »
Hi Neale , sorry as you wrote the probate is dated 1858 but the wording is that John Jutsum died on or around Nov , 1832 . We know that's not true from the newspaper reports . I am trying to see the convict report which was sent to John Judson mother in Chelsea . It interests me because it may name the parents .Our John Jutsum was born to William Cook Jutsum and Mary Cheeseman Jutsum in 1802 .  I do NOT have John Jutsum/Judson baptism but do have him named in a will pertaining to this family 1806 and do have him on his sons marriage cert . I will check that again for date because as I recall it does not say father deceased . Amongst all this skulduggery over a silver cream jug he and his wife appear to have committed bigamy to add to the scandal , thanks for your interest . Fred
valentine.fairhurst,hayes,hammond,codling,rust.norfolk.deyrujo.jutsum.wharton.lacey,probert,prickett,preby atherley-jones.clifton ..london /china. judd, eubank , dixon , hine , airey ,park .twentyman , dampier , jones in suffolk , limby , derrick , stockwell..

Offline majm

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Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 13 March 21 20:39 GMT (UK) »
May I add to the confusion...

Some poorly transcribed indexes MAY mis-read the handwriting and consequently come up with SUTTON.  If so, I think John JUDSUM had 7 convictions and was twice transported.

Fred, many threads on RChat explain that the marriages effectively ended when the sentence of the English court was for seven years or more  transportation beyond the seas.  So that effectively made either party free to marry.  A woman with children, but no husband present was often referred to as a widow in that era. 

JM.
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Offline Neale1961

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Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 13 March 21 20:41 GMT (UK) »
In reply 8, I explain what I think has happened in error to his date of death.

This is the convict sheet that mentions his mother.
 
Convict records for John Judson to VDL per Countess of Harcourt 1821
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qep/

Conduct record includes 'Hulk report, sent at own request' and 'Stated M[other] at Chelsea'
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland)