Soho Brick Wall 1870s/80s, poss Irish

[JeremyS]

Hi wonderful rootschatters!

I have a Charles Pawle b.1819 who married a Caroline Jones in Bristol in 1839, had around 8 children with her, before he appears in London in the 1851 census staying with his older brother Anthony in Shoreditch, and then is living in Covent Garden in 1861 with some but not all of his later-born children & his wife Caroline not to be seen.

Then in the 1871 census he is at Little Windmill Street, St John The Baptist, Soho, listed as a widow,  working as a "Ladies Boot Maker", living with his daughter Ellen 14 who is probably Caroline's daughter. However also with him are Henry, 14months old and a "visitor" whose name I think is Ann Moore, of Middlesex, London.

By 1881 he is still at Little Windmill Street living with a "Susannah Pawle", born in Kerry, Ireland, & has not only son Henry, but also daughters Ada, Agnes & Annie, b.1872. This latter Annie Pawle is my Great-Grandmother.

I am really struggling to find out;
- if Ann Moore & Susannah Pawle are the same person or not.
- if so, where she comes from, and where she goes.
- if Susannah did marry Charles, where and when.

I can't believe Charles started this 2nd family in a different city & so late in life!

By 1891 Henry, Agnes & Ada are living alone, with no sign of Ada or Susanah/Ann.

To see my tree, on ancestry I am jeremy_stubbings .

Any help would be extremely appreciated. Thanks!

[CaroleW]

Ellen was actually registered as Helen in 1856 - mmn Jones

Henry in 1871 is Henry Moore

[CaroleW]

Henry was b March qtr 1870 Westminster St James as Henry Moore.  No mothers maiden name so he was illegit

He is the same Henry on the 1871 with Charles & Susannah

[CaroleW]

Ada's birth is on freebmd as Ada Pauwle June qtr 1880.  GRO online confirms spelling and shows mmn as McGrath

Also Lucy Paule 1878 Westminster - mmn McGrath.  Died 1979 as Lucy Paul

There is a Susan McGrath marriage in Sept qtr 1871 Westminster but no Charles Pawle on the same page

[CaroleW]

September qtr 1873 marriages - Charles Pawle to Johannah Magrah Westminster 1a 838

[JeremyS]

Henry was b March qtr 1870 Westminster St James as Henry Moore.  No mothers maiden name so he was illegit

He is the same Henry on the 1871 with Charles & Susannah

Thanks so much for all this work Carole.

In your experience, if he was illegitimate, would he have taken his mother's name? i.e. Can we be fairly sure that his mother was Ann Moore? And that this was her given name? And I assume we will never have a clue if Charles was the father or not

[JeremyS]

Ada's birth is on freebmd as Ada Pauwle June qtr 1880.  GRO online confirms spelling and shows mmn as McGrath

Also Lucy Paule 1878 Westminster - mmn McGrath.  Died 1979 as Lucy Paul

There is a Susan McGrath marriage in Sept qtr 1871 Westminster but no Charles Pawle on the same page

As Agnes and Annie were born in 1871 & 1872, not long after Henry, & with quite a gap to Ada (1881), Lucy (1878) (& Edith 1883!), might we assume that Agnes & Ada were both born to this Ann(e) Moore? With the later children born to Susan(ah) McGrath, who Charles poss married?

This theory would tally with the fact that Henry, Agnes & Annie were living together without any parents around in 1891, though they were 21, 19 & 18 years old. 

Also Agnes & Annie were both baptised the same day, June 4th 1883 at St Luke on Berwick St, with their parents listed as "Charles & Annie Pawle".

[JeremyS]

Ada's birth is on freebmd as Ada Pauwle June qtr 1880.  GRO online confirms spelling and shows mmn as McGrath

Also Lucy Paule 1878 Westminster - mmn McGrath.  Died 1979 as Lucy Paul

There is a Susan McGrath marriage in Sept qtr 1871 Westminster but no Charles Pawle on the same page

How are you able to see the maiden names on the birth index? I can only see the child's surname...because of this I haven't seen McGrath written anywhere.

I have found Lucy & Edith's baptisms now...both times the parents are written as "Charles & Ann(e)" Pawle/Paule (with their address at 22 Little Windmill St & Charles' profession as Bootmaker confirming they are the correct people). So I'm so confused. Are Susannah McGrath & Ann(e) Moore the same person?!

I've also now found an Edith Paul aged 7 & born in Soho in an orphange in 1891 (dates match), which given that I am fairly sure Charles died in 1889 would add up. I wonder if Anne/Susannah Moore/McGrath also passed away between 1881 & 1891..

[JeremyS]

I realised now that you said it was in the GRO online search. I have now found Agnes' ref (last name as Paul, GRO Reference: 1871 S Quarter in WESTMINSTER Volume 01A Page 419), & her maiden name is MOORE. Though I can't find anything for Annie at the GRO.

I'm very very confused!