Herre 1750 Wurttemberg to USA??

[geocmoore]

Subject:  How closely should US (MD 1776) and German (Zillhausen bef. 1749) records typically match for the same family?  What European records might I find?

I’m trying to trace a family that immigrated from "Germany" to the "USA" in 1749 through Philadelphia, PA.  The conventional wisdom provides three sets of records to match.
1)   The German birth records.
2)   The Immigration record (less detailed).
3)   The Maryland Colonial Census of 1776, which included names and ages for all residents.

Here is a summary of the records for the five immigrants and how they are similar or changed going from source 1 to source 3.
A)   Johann Martin Herre (b. 1720, Zillhausen) > Hanss Martin Herre > Martin Herry (1720)
B)   Anna Maria Seßler (b. 1720, Zillhausen) > Anna Maria Sassler Herre > Mary Herry (1730)
C)   Jonathan Herre (b. 1742, Zillhausen) > 1 of 3 unnamed children > Jonathan Herry (1745)
D)   Simon David Herre (b. 1744, Zillhausen) > 1 of 3 unnamed children > David Herry (1750)
E)   Johan Herre (b. 1748, Zillhausen) > 1 of 3 unnamed children > Martin Herry (1748) called “Martin Jr.” in many records, so he was a "John".  [There was also a John Herry b. 1760 per the 1776 census, thought to be Martin's brother.]

Of interest:  There is also a report of “Hans Herre” returning to his home in abt. 1765 to claim his share of an estate (100 florins; roughly $2000 today), before returning to Pennsylvania.  There were legal records of claims (tax?) due on the estate.  (Source:  New World Immigrants, Vol. II, on Ancestry.com.  I think this is from a book by Michael Tepper, 1980 citing “Einige Amerika-Auswanderer des 18.  Jahrhundrets aus Wuerttemberg.” [“Some 18th century emigrants from Wuerttemberg to America.”] In Suedwestdeusche Blaettr fuer Familien und Wappen-kunde.  [Southwest German leaflet for families and heraldry customers.]  Stuttgart, February 1957, Series 9, No. 1, p. 442.  Editor Reinhold Scholl, Stuttgart-Sillenbuch).

More specifics of individual records on request.

Questions primarily for US researchers:
a)   Is this a reasonably good match for Maryland about 1776, despite the name and age differences? 
b)   I gather there would not be a record of Johan Martin Herre’s return trip to Europe around 1765, since he had already signed a loyalty oath?

Questions primarily for EU researchers:
c)   What’s the best way to find records of this family if they stayed in Germany (or Europe) rather than immigrating to the US in 1749.
d)   Would there by European records of the estate?  Or the return trip?  How would I find those to see if they involved Zillhausen or this Johann Martin Herre (b. 1720)?

Thank you!
George C. Moore
Likely 5x great grandson of Johann Martin Herre (b. 1720)

[garstonite]

Hiya George - and a warm welcome to Rootschat
firstly may I point out not all family trees are 100% correct - for instance this has Anna Maria as SASSLER - not Sessler .
secondly do you know George Moss ??  the tree owner ??  he has Johann Martin Herre siblings and also parents and one set of Grandparents
could you let us know if this familytree is correct ... a bit of luck for you
Johann had a brother named Simon David and it was also his Fathers name

https://gw.geneanet.org/gem1946?n=herre&oc=&p=johann+martin

[garstonite]

Anna Maria died in 1780 - and Johann re married in 1782 to Elizabeth Schultz

 Johann Martins mother - https://gw.geneanet.org/gem1946?lang=en&p=lucia&n=haag

[Mowsehowse]

During the recent on-line RootsTech 2021 event I discovered I have a few hundred distant cousins scattered around the USA, who are descended from ancestors that emigrated from Wurttemberg.

Has anyone found the reason so many people left Germany for the USA ?

Generally speaking I'm guessing it would likely be due to famine or religious conflict......

I would love to have knowledge of some of the social history which determined their choices.

[geocmoore]

To MowseHowse:

Interesting question:  Here is a place to start answering that question: 

http://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/palatines/palatine-history.shtml#:~:text=There%20were%20many%20reasons%20for,in%20the%20North%20American%20colonies.

The specific part that relates to your question is:  "There were many reasons for the desire of the Palatines to emigrate to the New World: oppressive taxation, religious bickering, hunger for more and better land, the advertising of the English colonies in America and the favourable attitude of the British government toward settlement in the North American colonies. Many of the Palatines believed they were going to Pennsylvania, Carolina or one of the tropical islands."

Very Respectfully,
George.

[geocmoore]

To:  mowsehowse

Another source I have found very useful in understanding German immigration to America is The German-American Experience, By Don Heinrick Tolzmann  See:  https://www.worldcat.org/title/german-american-experience/oclc/699118211&referer=brief_results.
In my edition, pp. 52-57 are on the causes of immigration.  (If you have a different edition, look at the first subsection in Chapter III.)

The same author has many other works on this subject.

Very Respectfully,
George Moore

[geocmoore]

to:  garstonite

Thanks for your suggestions about the naming similarities, which is an important clue. 

I have not yet seen the name Simon David for the Washington County, Maryland David Herry, who I have only found in US records as David Herry (with variant spellings) in his marriage in 1778, and in censuses for 1776, 1780, 1790, 1900, 1810, 1820, 1830, and 1840. All yhose were for Washington County Maryland, or the equivalent.

But, thinking about your suggestion, I see that the following names of Herre Children from the Zillhausen records for Johan Martin Harry (son of Somin David Herre (or siblings of his wife Anna Maria Sessler) from Zillhausen do seem to match the following assumed children in the 1776 census of Elizabeth Hundred in (then) Frederick County, MD:
- Jonathan Herre => Jonathan Herry
- Simon David Herre => David Herry
- Johann Martin Herre => Martin Herry
- Jacob Herre => Jacob Herry
- Johann Herre => John Herry
- Andreas Herre => Andrew Herry
- Dotothea Sessler => Dorathea Herry  (Anna Maria's Siblings taken from an ancestry.com tree

So, yes, the naming similarities are stunning.

Thank you again for this suggestion.

Very Gratefully,
George Moore

[Mowsehowse]

Geocmore.
Many thanks, l will enjoy reading the links.

[Rena]

I was interested to read this thread.  My ancestor was a Hanovarian, born in the Kingdom of Hanover, which was ruled by Britain.   

To find your ancestors' Wurttemberg baptism records you will need to know whether they were Ev. Lutheran (protestants) or Catholics, as both those religions have their own archives. 

Familysearch has advice on this webpage:-

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/W%C3%BCrttemberg,_German_Empire_Church_Records

You have already noticed that the Germanic naming is that the child's personal given name is next to the surname.  The other given name(s) are those of the godparents.  Quite often they're relatives and/or the name of a person with great standing in the area ; e.g. who might give the child a job when it's older.   I found that the mainland Europeans had a naming pattern for their children which matched that of most of the UK in olden days.

1st boy named after baby's paternal grandfather
2nd boy named after baby's maternal grandfather
3rd boy named after baby's own father
4th boy named after its father's oldest brother

1st girl named after baby's maternal grandmother
2nd girl named after baby's paternal grandmother#
3rd girl named after its own mother.
4th girl named after its mother's oldest sister

Best Wishes,
Rena