Herre 1750 Wurttemberg to USA??

[geocmoore]

To:  Rena:

Thanks for those thoughts and suggestions. 

The information about the Godparents names was especially interesting.
The Herre (Herry/Harry/Harvy) family was Evangelical Lutheran in both Wurttemberg and Maryland. 

That is not surprising on the US side, given that the the more rustic western Maryland, where they were located, attracted mostly protestants, based on my experience with my ancestors and based on reading about the history of the area.

Of course, of the colonies, Maryland was the most friendly to Catholics (at least in the mid-atlantic region) as the proprietor was Catholic.

Very Respectfully,
George.

[Mowsehowse]

To:  mowsehowse

Another source I have found very useful in understanding German immigration to America is:
"The German-American Experience", By Don Heinrick Tolzmann 

Very Respectfully,George Moore

To avoid massive postage charges, and long waiting times, does anyone in UK have a copy for sale?

[geocmoore]

According to worldcat, The following libraries in the UK have a copy of Tolzmann's The German-American Experience:
- Oxford,
- Cambridge,
- Reading
- Manchester
I suggest contacting your local library about an inter-library loan (ILL).  See:  https://www.bl.uk/on-demand/ill#

Also, look at Tolzmann's other books.  One of those might cover your question, and be easier to get.

Best,
George.

P.S.  I just sat down a reread the section on causes of the immigration, and it is quite interesting.  I guess you know there was a large immigration from the Palatinate to London around 1709, driven by two especially cold winters where wildlife and fruit trees/vines were frozen?

Another reason involved the political and social disintegration of the Holy Roman Empire, so that much of the immigration occurred in a period in which the palatinate was run by a number of little rulers who seem to have had little regard for the welfare of the common folk, but did try to control their lives in many ways.  This (plus wars, especially French) seems to have lead to depopulation, and general social and economic disintegration.

I am paraphrasing here, and perhaps badly, as I am not at all an expert on this topic.

[geocmoore]

Is Borchardt related to Borkut, or would those be of different origin?  I think the Borkut's we knew might have described themselves as Ukrainian and White Russian.

[Mowsehowse]

Is Borchardt related to Borkut, or would those be of different origin?  I think the Borkut's we knew might have described themselves as Ukrainian and White Russian.

Totally clueless on this.
I have been handed her by someone who is determined she was the mother of my 2 x great grandfather, but hasn't shown me documentary evidence.
18C Hammerstein perhaps, and probably Jewish.

Good point to ask if the library can get hold of Tolzmann for me.....(thanks).
Libraries have been off the radar for so long, due to pandemic, I didn't think of it!  Doh.....

[Rena]

I often find the free online international library useful.  There were about 800 results when I used the search term:-  Tolzmann 

https://archive.org/details/texts

[Mowsehowse]

According to worldcat, The following libraries in the UK have a copy of Tolzmann's The German-American Experience:
- Oxford,
- Cambridge,
- Reading
- Manchester
I suggest contacting your local library about an inter-library loan (ILL).  See:  https://www.bl.uk/on-demand/ill#

Also, look at Tolzmann's other books.  One of those might cover your question, and be easier to get.

Best,
George.

P.S.  I just sat down a reread the section on causes of the immigration, and it is quite interesting.  I guess you know there was a large immigration from the Palatinate to London around 1709, driven by two especially cold winters where wildlife and fruit trees/vines were frozen?

Another reason involved the political and social disintegration of the Holy Roman Empire, so that much of the immigration occurred in a period in which the palatinate was run by a number of little rulers who seem to have had little regard for the welfare of the common folk, but did try to control their lives in many ways.  This (plus wars, especially French) seems to have lead to depopulation, and general social and economic disintegration.

I am paraphrasing here, and perhaps badly, as I am not at all an expert on this topic.

I was just reviewing various posts and....
I did try to get a Tolzmann book from the inter-library loan service, but sadly, the very helpful assistant was unsuccessful.

Also, (for interest,) the mini ice age between the 14 & 18 centuries was quite severe in the Uk too, though probably not as bad as central Europe which is always far colder winters than here.

https://londonhistorians.wordpress.com/tag/great-frost-of-1709/

[geocmoore]

Sorry to hear that.  I think i've seen some other good sources on-line.  I just can't remember where.

[geocmoore]

In pulling the thread on the original question about Johan Martin Herre, I have found that the alleged report that his with and children were named at immigration was in error, but I am still convinced (as are two "experts") that the PA/MD Herre matches the Zillhausen Herre.

1) The initial report I saw was on ancestry.com and very short.
2) This was based on an article in an American Journal which was longer, but vague on sources, except that it was based on a German Article.
3) I was able to get the German article from Heidelberg Uni.  On translating it, I concluded that the American journal article was not a very faithful translation in some terms.  The German article was much more literal and gave the archive file where to original material is still available.
4) I have just requested the original European file from 1765-1770 (now in the Stuttgart archives) and am looking forward to figuring out what it actually says, IF I can read the script.

But the bottom line is that it was the European document, based on a return trip by Martin Herre, that named the wife and at least enumerated the children.  The German author/analyst noted that the sailing date from the deposition exactly matched the immigration of Martin Herre in 1749, so they were "certainly" the same person.  In that context, certainly means almost certainly, or must have been, but not ARE the same person.