Author Topic: Registered under two surnames  (Read 974 times)

Offline cstevens21

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Registered under two surnames
« on: Sunday 21 March 21 13:11 GMT (UK) »
Help please!

My grandad was born in 1907 and birth not registered. This was not done until 1923, when he had two records - one under his mothers maiden name and one under her husbands surname. His name became his christian name, middle name (mothers maiden name) and surname (mums husbands surname) Birth cert shows father unknown. Can I assume the man who gave him his name in 1923 - was his father back in 1907? In 1911 census he is missing as a child.  Thank you!!

Offline CaroleW

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Re: Registered under two surnames
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 21 March 21 18:25 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat

When did his mother marry?  If before 1911 have you looked for him on the 1911 under her married name? 

If they married after 1911 but were living as a married couple in 1911 - its possible he was the biological father.  He may have already been married

Be better if you gave us names & dates etc
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Offline BumbleB

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Re: Registered under two surnames
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 21 March 21 18:33 GMT (UK) »
Welcome!

I don't understand how a birth taking place in 1907 wasn't registered until 1923.  Which country are we talking about?  Can we assume that you have copies of the 1923 registration?
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Online KGarrad

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Re: Registered under two surnames
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 21 March 21 18:41 GMT (UK) »
Assuming this is in England/Wales, Sounds like a re-registration due to the Legitimacy Act.

The 1923 registration should show, on the GRO Index, a reference to the original registration.
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Offline cstevens21

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Re: Registered under two surnames
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 21 March 21 19:01 GMT (UK) »
Thank you all...details:
Leslie born 1907 to mum Mabel Gadsby in a pub in Islington. (address from birth cert)
1911 he is no where. She is in Leamington with sister and her family and mother.
She marries John S Bywater in 1911 after census.

Handwritten on 1907 birth records as Leslie Gadsby and also handwritten Leslie Bywater.
I am sure this was in 1923 from the cert we ordered, but would need to check.

No father on cert. John S Bywater had been married in 1907.

It's all messy and probably explains - why he was told to be a cousin of his half-brothers....
Any ideas?? Thank you




Offline Girl Guide

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Re: Registered under two surnames
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 21 March 21 22:02 GMT (UK) »
This appears to be John's marriage

Marriages Sep 1901   
Bywater    John Samuel        Banbury    3a   2042    
DAY    Eliza        Banbury    3a   2042    
HALL    John Ernest        Banbury    3a   2042    
HAYNES    Emily        Banbury    3a   2042

John is a widower in the 1911 census but doesn't appear to have his children with him.

Living here 128 Warwick St Leamington, Leamington, Warwickshire.  He has a Jane Day with him so that would suggest that he married Eliza Day.  Jane probably his mother in law.

Registration district   Warwick
Registration district number   393
Sub-district   Leamington
Sub-district number   2
Enumeration district number   4
Series   RG14
Piece number   18733
Schedule   19
Census reference   RG14PN18733 RG78PN1119 RD393 SD2 ED4 SN19
RG 78 piece number   1119

Death of wife?

Deaths Dec 1910 
Bywater    Eliza    36    Warwick    6d   361

Kathleen probably his child, not sure about Winifred

BYWATER, KATHLEEN  NELLIE     DAY 
GRO Reference: 1910  D Quarter in WARWICK  Volume 06D  Page 617

BYWATER, WINIFRED  IVY     DAY 
GRO Reference: 1909  M Quarter in ASTON  Volume 06D  Page 355

Kathleen died

Deaths Dec 1910   
Bywater    Kathleen N    0    Warwick    6d   362

Doesn't look like Winifred did but I can't find her in the 1911 as Bywater.

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England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline spendlove

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Re: Registered under two surnames
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 21 March 21 22:10 GMT (UK) »
Hi

You say cousin to  brothers, I can only find birth registration of one boy Gordon and one girl Muriel born to John and Mabel.

Assume JS full name was John Samuel Bywater, whos first wife died 1910.  John was born 1873
So on the 1939 Register he gave an incorrect birth year 1883.

In 1911  census, although at different addresses, John Samuel Bywater and Mabel Ada Gadsby are both living in Leamington Spa. 

The reason I ask how many brothers is that in 1914 arriving from Canada is a
John S Bywater   Age 33 a clerk
Mabel.    .                29 Housewife
Richard.  .                Age 10 months.

Spendlove

Previous reply submitted whilst I was typing this.
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Offline cstevens21

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Re: Registered under two surnames
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 21 March 21 22:29 GMT (UK) »
Yes there were two brothers - Richard was born in Canada, Gordon when came back. Leslie did not go with them. We only assume he stayed with family.

Re John Bywater having children - I did not know this.  I wonder if Eliza his first wife's death was connected to birth of daughter as both 1910 - that is very sad.

Have no record of Ivy Winifred.

Looking again at FreeBMD - there is a note that the 1923 was a late entry to the birth registration to 1907. Would John S Bywater give his name if not his son in those days?  Having Bywater then gave my grandmother and mum that name by marriage - so a big deal. Is recorded twice in 1923/1907 Islington.
Thank you to all for helping

Online KGarrad

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Re: Registered under two surnames
« Reply #8 on: Monday 22 March 21 22:27 GMT (UK) »
The GRO Index has a symbol (red arrow; blue flash) against it.
If you click on that you get:

Births Sep 1923
Bywater    Leslie    Gadsby    Islington       1b    461    jd1363    

The above transcription represents what is in the GRO index but it is referred to by the following entry
Births 1907 Jun: BYWATER,Leslie,Islington,1b,Sep23
which implies that this is a late entry, that is an entry that has been registered in a quarter later than the event.


As I said, almost certainly a re-registration following the marriage of his mother and father, under the Legitimacy Act.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)