John Charles Kyle family

[mojo1970]

Hi,

Again going round in circles and need some help.

Looking for either a death record or the divorce of John Charles Kyle m. 25th December 1911 at Christ Church, Belfast. His spouse Agnes D. is my x2 great Aunt whom we thought was married to a man named Robert (Bob) Newell. Recent information is telling us that Aunt Agnes might not have been married to Bob after all, and I can't find any marriage record.

Marriage cert has John Kyle's address as 8 Balmoral Street, occupation machiner & father Robert (railway man).1911 census has Robert and Charles Kyle both as labourers and both from Tyrone, with Charles a boarder at 4 Balmoral Street.

Aunt Agnes did have a child in 1928/29 and as it is less than 100 years can't look at birth records.

Also, did find an immigration record to Canada in 1913 of a John Kyle born Tyrone 1888.

Can anyone help in providing further information on death/divorce of John Charles Kyle and/or marriage of Agnes D. to a Bob Newell.

Many Thanks

Mojo

[sam.b]

On the 1911 Census, Agnes was living at home, the Census was taken on the 2nd April 1911, so I doubt if she was married to anyone else, prior to her Marriage in Dec 1911.
Residents of a house 275 in Donegall Road (St. George's, Antrim)
Show all information
Surname   Forename   Age   Sex   Relation to head   Religion
Dunsan   James   58   Male   Husband   Church Ireland
Duncan   Agness   54   Female   Wife   Church Ireland
Duncan   Samuel   31   Male   Son   Church Ireland
Duncan   Richard   29   Male   Son   Church Ireland
Duncan   Agness   25   Female   Daughter   Church Ireland
Duncan   Sarah   23   Female   Daughter   Church Ireland
Duncan   James   20   Male   Son   Church Ireland
Duncan   Benjamin   17   Male   Son   Church Ireland
Duncan   Rachel   14   Female   Daughter   Church Ireland
Do you think John Kyle died sometime between Dec 1911 and the birth in 1928 ?

[Elwyn Soutter]

You can get a birth certificate for someone born in 1928/29, but you will need to pay. Ring GRONI with the details. They’ll do a 5 year search for £7 and if there’s a likely match then they’ll send you a copy of the certificate for a further £8. Total £15.

Phone: 0300 200 7890 (+44 300 200 7890 from outside the UK)

The birth certificate should tell you whether the parents were married or not. 


I looked for an Agnes Kyle = Robert Newell marriage in Northern Ireland up to 1930 but did not see one. However I did see a marriage between Robert Newell and Rachel Duncan on 14.3.1928, in Belfast.  Coincidence or did Agnes go back to her maiden name and use the forename Rachel? You can view that certificate on the GRONI site for £2.50.

[sam.b]

If it's any assistance ,Rachel Duncan married a Robert Newell in 1928.
M/1928/B1/570/69/38   Rachel   Duncan   Newell   14th March 1928   Belfast
M/1928/B1/570/69/38   Robert   Newell   Duncan   14th March 1928   Belfast

[scotmum]

Northern Whig newspaper of 9th September 1929 has a death entry under Kyle:

.  Robert, dearly beloved husband of Sarah Kyle, his remains will be removed from his late residence 8, Balmoral Street       

He died at the RVH.

Burial index records age as 48. A Sarah Kyle, aged 79 is buried in same plot in 1963, address 22 Finvoy Street. No one else indexed as being in plot. Newspaper indicates this was her son-in-law's residence.

Neither death notice mentions John Charles Kyle.

[sam.b]

3 more deaths:
Occupants of grave K1 303, City Cemetery
Forename   Surname   Age   Date of death   Date of burial   Cemetery    Details   
Sarah   Duncan   70 Y   17 October 1963   19 October 1963   City Cemetery   
Agnes   Kyle   30 Years   29 February 1916   2 March 1916   City Cemetery      
Rachel   Newell   77   4 March 1976   8 March 1976   City Cemetery   

Occupants of grave N 173, City Cemetery - Glenalina Extension
Forename   Surname   Age   Date of death   Date of burial   Cemetery    Details   
Robert   Kyle   48 Years   7 September 1929   9 September 1929   City Cemetery - Glenalina Extension      
Sarah   Kyle   79 Yrs   13 April 1963   16 April 1963   City Cemetery - Glenalina Extension      
   

[mojo1970]

Hi,

Have ordered the birth cert for Ivy and that should provide clarity in some way. It is a little strange how Bob Newell married Aunt Agnes' sister Rachel which I just confirmed on a certificate search. Address is given as 459 Donegall Road, the house my father was raised in after both his parents abandoned him in the mid 1940's. He remembers Bob Newell who was more than likely a partner of my Aunt Agnes, as we now believe not her husband.

 The census shows the Kyle family at 4 Balmoral Street and are down as labourers yet are different occupations on the marriage cert. Street directories have Robert down as a labourer. On the marraige cert occupations match, with machiner and hem stitcher for bride and groom and tram inspector and railwayman for the fathers. Just confused to the addresses on cert and census being 4 & 8 Balmoral Street.

I just noticed under Robert Kyles name on 1911 marriage cert it says (dec'd) so I presume meaning deceased. If Robert is deceased prior to December 1911 then surely it couldn't be the Kyle family at 4 Balmoral Street. Yet Robert Kyle is on the street directories at 8 Balmoral Street including 1910, up to 1932 and then in 1939 brings the biggest shock of the evening.......1939 street directory there is a John Morrow (labourer)...my grandfather I believe.

Always amazes me what research brings up!!

Again thank you

Regards

Mojo

[mojo1970]

Hi,

Sorry, just seen that last post.

Strange, you have Rachel Newell's death as March 1976 yet I know my Nanny Rita died in 1976. My nanny Rita is same person as my 2 x great Aunt Agnes Rita Duncan born 1886 and married to John Charles Kyle. She was also buried in the City Cemetery.


This is just so confusing!!

Regards

Mojo

[scotmum]

In timescale, numbers on census do not necessarily relate to house number, but rather number in which visited, eg number 4 could be 4th house visited in the street

Going on ages, the Robert Kyle of 1911 census and later directories, was more likely a brother or cousin of the Charles Kyle, albeit Charles is noted as boarder, yet the Ann Irwin below him is noted as relative .

At their respective times of death, Rachel Newell's last place of residence was 49e Creevy Ave, Agnes Kyle's was 202 Donegall Road and Sarah Duncan's was 411 Donegall Rd.

James Duncan,  411 Donegall Rd, died 25th January 1944 aged 88:


Date of burial   27 January 1944
Cemetery   City Cemetery
Grave section and number   K1 285

there are other Duncans in same plot as him.