Irish on the 1911 census but not the 1901?

[Ghostwheel]

I found a case where there's no indication on the 1901 census that a man who was head of household and 32, living in Northern Kildare, could speak Irish, but in 1911, when he was 42, and living in Dublin, it is said he could.

First, I was wondering, did two different people fill out the censuses?  Was it a census taker in 1901, and the head of household in 1911?

Next, I was wondering, did older people acquire Irish between censuses?  How likely is it that he (but nobody in his household) learned Irish after he was 32?  Or could it be a mistake?

Two other brothers appear on the 1911 census, and three on the 1901 census, but there's no other instance of one claiming knowledge of Irish.  But still I was thinking of one possibility: this guy was born in 1869.  He lived in a house with his grandma, who died when he was 18, and she was born in 1799 in Northern Kildare.  I had a theory that her parents might have spoken Irish.  Maybe, it was only a few words he knew, and that's why his brothers did not claim the knowledge.

[Ghostwheel]

Maybe, the theory doesn't work.  One of his aunts was alive on both censuses and there is no indication that she could speak it, though she was not the head of household.

I don't know if it is significant, but in 1909, I found out that he was an insurance agent.  I wonder if he might have learned some for his job.

[Maiden Stone]

First, I was wondering, did two different people fill out the censuses?  Was it a census taker in 1901, and the head of household in 1911?

Next, I was wondering, did older people acquire Irish between censuses?  How likely is it that he (but nobody in his household) learned Irish after he was 32? 

Either is possible.
He may have been part of the Gaelic Revival and/or growth of Irish nationalism . He may have grown up with knowledge of Irish and may have admitted it or have rediscovered it or it may have become important to him by 1911.
The Gaelic League was founded 1893 by Douglas Hyde. It promoted use of Irish language. HQ Dublin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conradh_na_Gaeilge

Book "Grand Opportunity: The Gaelic Revival and Irish Society 1893-1910" by Timothy McMahon

[Elwyn Soutter]

The census enumerators for both the 1901 & 1911 censuses were local police officers (many of whom would have spoken Irish). Normally the head of household completed the form and the enumerator countersigned. Sometimes where the person wasn’t very literate you can see from the handwriting that the enumerator has completed it, and then got the householder to sign or put their mark.

As Maiden Stone has said, with 1901 & 1911 I think you need to think about things in political terms ie the growing call for Home Rule in Ireland. Many people in Ireland who had completed the 1901 and previous censuses in English, chose to complete the 1911 census in Irish. Often they got the local priest or schoolmaster to do the writing (obvious from the elegant classical script), but they were making a political point. So the numbers claiming to speak Irish increased quite a bit between 1901 & 1911 for that reason. In fairness many did speak Irish but few will have learned it between 1901 & 1911. They learned it at home and to a certain extent at school.

As a random example, here’s George Carberry, of Meenadoon, in Donegal in the 1901:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Fintown/Meenadoon/1176677/

And here he is in the 1911:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Donegal/Fintown/Meenadoan/487182/

[Ghostwheel]

That's interesting about the name changes between 1901 and 1911.  Several have mentioned increasing patriotism to me, and I think it's true.

The total number of Irish speakers dropped from 619,710 to 553,717 between those years, according to this site: https://www.uni-due.de/DI/DI_Who_Speaks_Irish.htm  But perhaps it rose among younger people.

I've been studying the census a bit, using Kildare as a county of origin and  "Irish and English.  I can find a few older people in 1901 who claimed a knowledge of both, without it obviously being connected to younger people in the household.

For example, Bridget Walsh (car proprietor, age 75) in Newbridge, Co. Kildare:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kildare/Newbridge/John_Street/1443102/
Or Pat Dempsey (railway inspector, age 63) in Dublin but from Kildare
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/North_Dock/Hawthorn_Terrace/1275125/
Or the curious case of Michael Kelly (farmer, 72) in the Dublin household of his brother (70) who does not speak it:http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Ushers_Quay/Watling_Street/1303584/

But there does not seem to be many.  Nothing that stands out as a geography.  I'm inclined to think that it might have something to do with education rather than family tradition, but I'm still uncertain about it.

[Maiden Stone]

The total number of Irish speakers dropped from 619,710 to 553,717 between those years, according to this site: https://www.uni-due.de/DI/DI_Who_Speaks_Irish.htm 

I know this statement from the study is about the current language situation but it may have relevance a century earlier in the cases of your insurance agent and Mr Kelly, the dairyman, both of whom had moved to Dublin:
"There is also a significant proportion of speakers of Irish in the Gaeltacht areas who claim never to use Irish. The numbers here are greatest for the 25-34 year age bracket. This would confirm the view that some people who acquire Irish in their homes abandon the language as adults during their professional life."
The dairyman Kelly brother who, according to 1901 census, didn't speak Irish, may have left home for Dublin in his youth and mixed exclusively with English speakers, while his farmer brother may have remained in Kildare for most of his life, continuing to speak Irish with some of his friends and neighbours. 

I've been studying the census a bit, using Kildare as a county of origin and  "Irish and English.  I can find a few older people in 1901 who claimed a knowledge of both, without it obviously being connected to younger people in the household.


  I'm inclined to think that it might have something to do with education rather than family tradition, but I'm still uncertain about it.

I've seen evidence of the same situation for my extended family & their neighbours in Mayo, judging solely by census returns. Parents born mid 19thC stated they spoke Irish & English, their children born in the last quarter of the century weren't recorded as Irish speakers. Children of families living in or near a town became mono-lingual before children in rural areas.
Consider attitudes to native languages in Ireland and Britain, both within native speaking communities and
 outside them, in late 19th & early 20th centuries.   

[Ghostwheel]

Maiden Stone,

That's a very good point about the brothers perhaps having had different histories with regard to where they lived, as young adults.  I hadn't even considered that.

In my original case, it seems the three brothers were all living in different places when they got married.  At approximately age 30, give or take.  I suppose that could potentially mean that they were out of the place where they were born for a while.

[heywood]

I don’t think you can take the censuses as accurate representations.
I have grandparents who state Irish and English on both censuses. Their townland of abt 150 shows all adults as Irish and English except for one in 1901 with just Irish.
The dual language persons include the family of a man who was known as a seanachaí (a storyteller) who also worked for and was a friend of Padraig Pearse. He also provided stories to Douglas Hyde as mentioned by Maiden Stone.

My husband’s family who come from what is now a designated Gaeltacht area show 5 out of 59 with Irish whilst others have both languages. When he recalls meeting his grandfather in the 1940s, he thinks he just had Irish but that could be just not tuning in to the language.

[Ghostwheel]

I've been going over a few censuses from Irish-speaking areas too, like parts of Co. Kerry.

One thing I noticed is that there seems to have been a lot of middle-aged people who are identified as "Irish and English" speakers in 1901, but as only "English" in 1911.  I find this remarkable.

I wonder if they stopped speaking it, or if the real answer is that nobody wanted to write it all out in such a small space.