Author Topic: Sir John Thomas Mann  (Read 361 times)

Offline Jan Prit

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Sir John Thomas Mann
« on: Saturday 27 March 21 00:30 GMT (UK) »
Good Morning all, hope all is well. I don't expect finding this person John Thomas Mann will be easy, I have just found that he is connected through his daughter Cecilia Mann who married a Christopher Haviland 1544 St. James Poole Yorkshire. :-[ John Thomas Mann from Salisbury Wiltshire bap.17/10/1495 married a Cecilia White 30/9/1547 Poole Dorset, her burial 3/11/1619 Canterbury Kent, his burial 1578 Poole Dorset. :-\ I have saved that Cecilia's father is a Thomas White and mother Cecilia  :-\ John Mann's parents are John Mann bap.1457 from Broad Oak Kent  :-\ wife Elizabeth. I am finding a lot on Ancestry from other researchers but some a totally different to each other. :-[ Have a good weekend and be safe. :)

Regards,
Janet :-[

Online Vance Mead

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Re: Sir John Thomas Mann
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 27 March 21 06:50 GMT (UK) »
There are a number of things I'm wondering about. John Thomas Mann's date of christening is suspiciously precise - to the day, when parish records began more than 30 years later. Also, having a middle name was very unusual, except among the Welsh whose second name was patronymic. Then, they are all over England - Kent, Wiltshire, Yorkshire. People didn't necessarily stay in one place their whole lives, but it would take a week to travel from Dorset to Yorkshire. This makes me think someone might have put together people with common names like White and Mann. So I'd like to see some evidence from contemporary or near contemporary records, such as TNA Discovery, British History Online, wills, Heralds visitations, legal records, and the like.

I don't have any confidence in trees on Ancestry.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/advanced-search
https://www.british-history.ac.uk
https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/Main_Page
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/Indices/CP40Indices/CP40_Indices.html
Mead - Herts, Bucks, Essex
Pontifex - Bucks
Goldhurst - London, Middx, Herts
Kellogg/Kelhog - Essex, Cambs

Offline Jan Prit

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Re: Sir John Thomas Mann
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 27 March 21 07:00 GMT (UK) »
Afternoon Vance Mead, thanks for your message, I have been searching all over especially with a website from a ancestor of the Haviland families I have checked both the posting on Ancestry and other websites this particular person is going to get back to me regarding the families and I can check the proper records, I never post my findings on Ancestry at all even my full pedigree but save it onto Legacy forms. :-[

Regards,
Janet :-\


Online Vance Mead

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Re: Sir John Thomas Mann
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 27 March 21 07:59 GMT (UK) »
I did some looking around. There is a will of John Man of Poole, Dorset, made 8 July in the 19th year of Queen Elizabeth (1577). He mentions his daughter "Cicelie Havilonde" and Christopher Havilonde is a witness. This is a PCC will, which you can see on Ancestry and in TNA Discovery. Original documents can be downloaded for free from TNA once you are signed in.

John Man was a merchant. Here is a Common Pleas record of him from Hilary term (winter) 1554.

http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT3/M/CP40no1157/bCP40no1157dorses/IMG_1272.htm
Second entry
London. John Man of Poole, Dorset, merchant, versus Christopher Stevyns, of Bruton, Somerset, mercer, for debt of 40 pounds 13 shillings eight pence.

I'll get back if I find more.

Mead - Herts, Bucks, Essex
Pontifex - Bucks
Goldhurst - London, Middx, Herts
Kellogg/Kelhog - Essex, Cambs

Online Vance Mead

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Re: Sir John Thomas Mann
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 27 March 21 08:21 GMT (UK) »
There are some records of John Man of Poole in the Dorset archives. He was the bailiff in 1524 and the mayor in 1550. He was also a witness to a conveyance in 1541, together with Thomas White, Richard Havylonde, William Havelonde, who must be connected with Christopher Haviland.


https://archive-catalogue.dorsetcouncil.gov.uk/search/phrase:records/0_50/all/score_desc/John%20Man
Mead - Herts, Bucks, Essex
Pontifex - Bucks
Goldhurst - London, Middx, Herts
Kellogg/Kelhog - Essex, Cambs

Online Vance Mead

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Re: Sir John Thomas Mann
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 27 March 21 08:30 GMT (UK) »
Still earlier, this is from Common Pleas in Hilary term 1505:

http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H7/CP40no971/aCP40no971fronts/IMG_0898.htm

Berkshire. James Havelond, of Poole, Dorset, merchant, summoned to answer John Seman and Joan his wife, executrix of Roger Knockyn for a debt of 40 shillings.

This must be the James de Havilland shown as the grandfather of Christopher in Wikitree.
Mead - Herts, Bucks, Essex
Pontifex - Bucks
Goldhurst - London, Middx, Herts
Kellogg/Kelhog - Essex, Cambs

Offline Jan Prit

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Re: Sir John Thomas Mann
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 27 March 21 11:06 GMT (UK) »
Evening Vance Mead, thanks for your help I have found so much news and records of this family especially in HavilandBook20 a lot of information my printer is working overtime, :-[ I need a rest and move onto another family member as I have spent so much time with this ancestor. :-\

Regards,
Janet :)