Matthew Forbes mystery daughter & step-daughter

[Jomot]

Mat(t)hew Forbes was born c1793 Duns, Berwickshire - probably the son of William Forbes & Elizabeth Walkenshaw, although his death certificate names his father as Matthew, mother n/k.

I believe he married 3 times, all in Glasgow: in 1819 to Janet Steel, 1839 to Mary Nish, and 1848 to Sarah McNeil. The marriage records all state he was a tailor in Glasgow, but don’t say if any party was single or widowed. I don’t know when any of the wives died, and I can’t find any children being baptised.  The salient census entries are:

1841 - Davidsons Land 89 Gallowgate St, Glasgow
Neil Macphee 50 Journeyman Tailor
John Graham 55 Journeyman Tailor
Mathew Forbes 50 Journeyman Tailor
    ---      Forbes (female) aged 30

1851 - 119 Great Easter Road, Camlachie, Lanarkshire
Matthew Forbes 55 Tailor b Dunse, Berwickshire
Sarah Mcneil 56 wife b Kinter, Argyllshire
Fanny/Fannel [probably Jannet] Forbes 17 daur b Greenock, Renfrewshire
William Hamilton 8 Nephew b Glasgow
Mary Mcneil 66 Aunt b Ireland

1861 - 17 Coalhill St, Glasgow Barony
Sarah Forbes 67 b Ireland
Janet Forbes 26 daur b Greenock, Renfrewshire
Robert McKenzie 4 Grandson b Glasgow
William Graham 1 Grandson b Lanarkshire
Margaret Johnson 66 Lodger

Matthew died 30 April 1860 at 17 Coalhill Street, aged 67, and was buried on 2 May at the Eastern Necropolis.  He is recorded as the step-father of Mrs Wm Boyd, Foundry Open.  Burial records here: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH8-P971-Y?cat=1323530
and https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ9-K6YP?cat=1323530

Mrs Wm Boyd was formerly Margaret McKenzie, born Ireland c1821, who married William Boyd in Glasgow in 1836.  One of their children was Malcolm Mcneil Boyd b1857, but I can’t for the life of me work out how Matthew Forbes was Margaret's step-father.   

I also have no clue whether Fanny/Fannel/Janet Forbes is Matthew's daughter or step-daughter, or what happened to her after 1861.   

I thought perhaps the Sarah McKenzie mentioned in the burial/lair book as having died in 1866 might be Sarah McNeil/Forbes, but she is identified only as the mother of Neil McKenzie: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSRF-K88X?i=272&cat=1323530

Any help in connecting any of these relationships would be greatly appreciated – I’ve been going round in circles for days & failing miserably! 

[MonicaL]

Hi Jomot

Just picking apart things a little to try to help you here.

1851 - 119 Great Easter Road, Camlachie, Lanarkshire
Matthew Forbes 55 Tailor b Dunse, Berwickshire
Sarah Mcneil 56 wife b Kinter, Argyllshire
Fanny/Fannel [probably Jannet] Forbes 17 daur b Greenock, Renfrewshire
William Hamilton 8 Nephew b Glasgow
Mary Mcneil 66 Aunt b Ireland

Have you found Sarah McNeil in the 1841 census? Likely Janet would be her daughter as no child shows in the household where Matthew is recorded in 1841.

You could try to follow up Janet to a marriage/death to confirm her parents' names perhaps. Added: See you mention that has been a problem so far.

Mary McNeil in 1851. Aunt to Sarah? If so, she should have shown as wife's aunt on the household entry as the releationship should always show in connection to the head of the household.

1861 - 17 Coalhill St, Glasgow Barony

Sarah Forbes 67 b Ireland
Janet Forbes 26 daur b Greenock, Renfrewshire
Robert McKenzie 4 Grandson b Glasgow
William Graham 1 Grandson b Lanarkshire
Margaret Johnson 66 Lodger

Have you found Sarah McNeil's death reg? Was she married to a McKenzie previously?

The death in 1866 shows as Sarah McNeil/McKenzie, aged 73. Mother's maiden name of Colvin. Death in High Church/Glasgow.

Have you had a look at this death on SP? Might be a good idea to check what it shows. The issue with surnames, it could well be that Sarah McNeil and Matthew Forbes were never married. So, Sarah's death would not show him as husband and Forbes surname would not be included on her registration.

Lots of references to the surname McKenzie aren't there. You have:

Mrs W Boyd, a Margaret McKenzie. If Sarah McNeil was her mother, no reason for simplicity for Matthew not to show as step father to her (although there may not have been a marriage). Have you thought of checking Margaret's death registration to see what it may show?

In connection to the 1866 death for a Sarah and reference to her being mother to a Neil McKenzie. Again, this could all connect to a possible previous marriage for Sarah.

Would be good to find Sarah and perhaps some Mckenzie children in 1841 (Janet in particular would still be young and should be with mother).

Monica

[Jomot]

Hi Monica, and thanks for the reply.

I've spent a small fortune with SP already, but have just taken the plunge and bought the death cert for Sarah McKenzie.  She was the widow of Neil McKenzie, Labourer, and died at 15 Society Street aged 73.  Her parents were John & Janet McNeil nee Colvin, both deceased. Informant Neil McKenzie, son.

I've gone down so many rabbit holes with all these surnames, but not found anything concrete for Sarah Forbes [McNeil] in 1841.  The differing birth places for her in 1851 (Kinter, Argyllshire) and 1861 (Ireland) don't exactly help either.

I did find a Janet McKenzie in 1841 & 1851 born c1835 & Greenock & still living there, with a father possibly John McKenzie.  But if that's her in 1851 then she can't also be Fanny/Fannel Forbes.

I suppose I should really buy Margaret Boyd's death certificate, but she's not listed on the lair record so I'm not immediately sure which death is her.  Back to the search!

[MonicaL]

There is this entry for example from 1841 for the McKenzie family perhaps?

www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a14e8e6f4040b9d6eefe1f0/sarah-mckenzie-1841-lanarkshire-glasgow-1801-?locale=en

No Fanny/Janet  But, we have a son Neil and a Robert. Margaret McKenzie Boyd also called one of her sons Neil McKenzie Boyd.

From 1861, we had a Robert living with grandmother Sarah Forbes - Robert McKenzie 4 Grandson b Glasgow. I thought this might be his entry www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F79H-D26 There may be others.

We also had in 1861 - William Graham 1 Grandson b Lanarkshire - can't see anything that stands out for his birth in Glasgow. Could also be registered as McKenzie maybe.

All work in progress for you 

Monica

[MonicaL]

There were two possible deaths for a Margaret Boyd/m*ck*nz* with a birth year around 1821 +/- 3 yrs. Both in Dennistoun

1896 - age 75
1902 - age 82

I would say that if Margaret is Sarah's daughter, with Margaret showing an Irish birth, there is a good possibility that Sarah was Irish born too? The McNeil aunt in the household in 1851 was also born in Ireland.

Monica

[MonicaL]

I found a small a/try tree which has Neil McKenzie and Sarah McNeil's son remarrying in 1866. Clip below. The marriage was in Bridgeton on 17 August. Mother Sarah shows as deceased. What was the date of death for Sarah from the DC you just looked at? Noticed that Robert is showing as a master tailor like Matthew Forbes:

[Jomot]

I found a small a/try tree which has Neil McKenzie and Sarah McNeil's son remarrying in 1866. Clip below. The marriage was in Bridgeton on 17 August. Mother Sarah shows as deceased. What was the date of death for Sarah from the DC you just looked at?

It was 24 April 1866.

[Jomot]

I plumped for the 1896 death for Margaret Boyd, and its the right one as the informant was her son Malcolm M Boyd, but she had remarried.

Margaret Houston widow of William Boyd, Weaver and wife/widow of Samuel Houston, Lamplighter.

I'm not 100% but I think it says her parents are Neil McKenzie & Sarah McKenzie maiden surname McNeil.  Both deceased.

I'll need to double-check, but I noted an 1871 census that looked like her at 105 King Street, Calton, and gave her PoB as Ireland, castteblaney (Castleblayney).

Off to do more searching.......

[MonicaL]

Have you got Margaret McKenzie and William Boyd on censuses? From 1861:

Wm Boyd 47 cotton weaver b. Ireland
Margaret Boyd 40 b. Ireland   
Neil Boyd 19    
Wm Boyd 15    
John Boyd 11    
Malcolm Boyd 3    
Elizabeth Boyd 2 grandchild

Address: 7 Foundry Open, Glasgow/High Church

Address works well with your earlier comment [Matthew Forbes - He is recorded as the step-father of Mrs Wm Boyd, Foundry Open].

William and Margaret had a daughter Margaret born in 1855 www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQ3K-M9W  Being an 1855 cert, the first year of statutory registration in Scotland, the entries on the register ran over 2 pages. For births it should tell you where parents were from, marriage, how many children they had (alive/deceased, boys/girls). It could give you clues as to where in Ireland they came from.

Monica