Patrick McDonald

[groat]

I've been in touch with the church who referred me to their archivist from whom I received this reply:
Thank you for your e-mail to the Westminster Diocesan Archives. Following the introduction of the most recent COVID restrictions, the Archives are now closed until further notice. We cannot reply to emails, and we will not be able to make appointments for readers to visit the Archives until we formally reopen.

Family history

If your enquiry relates to family history, please go to Find My Past, as most of the sacramental registers that we hold in the Archives have now been digitised and made available online.

I've tried searching catholic parish records on Find My Past but without success.

John McDonald/Macdonald was the bride's father. George McDonald was the bridegroom's brother. . The McDonald/MacDonald problem is intractable. I've faced it all my life and now rarely bother to "correct" my name when misspelled. You will already have seen in this thread that the two (or more) spellings have often been used interchangeably within my family.

[heywood]

 The only Kensington entry for 1905 I can see is one for ‘Joannem McDonald’ with a bride ‘Mariam Snell’ which would give you the John and Mary - perhaps it is difficult to read 

I have no other access

[groat]

Hello again

I've now heard back from a very helpful lady from the Westminster Diocesan Archives who found the marriage record which is indeed the one mentioned by Heywood and Maiden Stone. It's clear that it has been incorrectly transcribed. Mariam Snell McSwald  should, I think, have been transcribed as Mariam Dorette McDonald and the bride's father (also one of the witnesses) as Joannes (John) McDonald. The other witness George was the bridegroom's elder brother. My grandmother's maiden name was definitely McDonald (although sometimes written Macdonald). There appear to be no other entries in Ancestry or Find My Past for the name McSwald and I think that it is unlikely to be the correct transcription in this case.

The lady from the Archives Office also went on to say:

"Although we hold some marriage dispensations, the collection is by no means comprehensive as a large number of gaps exist. The dispensations we hold date from 1887 – 1901, 1894-1901 and then jump to 1907 -1956 which means that we would not hold anything between the years of 1901 and 1907."

So I seem to be stymied as to whether or not my grandparents were cousins. It seems a bit odd that that there was no mention of the connection in my family's oral history. It could be that, Flora having died when all her children were young, the relationship was never revealed to them. I still find it strange though that I've never heard that my grandfather's father-in-law was also his uncle, particularly since he was apparently a witness at the wedding (and indeed was listed as as having provided a wedding present).

So my search for clues to my grandmother's background continues.

I'm most grateful for the help I've received in this thread.


 

[heywood]

Thanks for the update 

[Maiden Stone]

So I seem to be stymied as to whether or not my grandparents were cousins. It seems a bit odd that that there was no mention of the connection in my family's oral history. It could be that, Flora having died when all her children were young, the relationship was never revealed to them. I still find it strange though that I've never heard that my grandfather's father-in-law was also his uncle, particularly since he was apparently a witness at the wedding (and indeed was listed as as having provided a wedding present).

As they married in a Catholic church it's unlikely that they were first cousins. Catholic church discouraged marriages between 1st cousins. Application for a dispensation for a first cousin marriage had to go to Rome and was supposed to be granted only for a grave reason.

[groat]

If they weren't cousins, it leaves me with the still unresolved question of who Flora's parents were. The census info discussed in this thread seemed quite persuasive that my grandmother Flora had a grandmother Sarah McDonald born in Ireland and subsequently living in North Yorkshire, which obviously ties in with the information I now have, thanks to the help here, of my grandfather's family background. Ah well, back to the grindstone.

[heywood]

According to her Marriage Certificate (September 1905) her father is John McDonald (although signed by him John Macdonald), occupation  Butler. In the Wedding report (apparently intended for a local newspaper) the Bride’s parents are listed as John and Mrs McDonald of Scarborough.

When you say her father signed the certificate, do you mean he was a witness?
Is the wedding report something you have in the family?

[heywood]

In 1901 there is a John Macdonald, aged 45, b. Bedale, Yorkshire, widower, living at 19 Seymour Mews, London (St. Marylebone district), occupation Domestic Butler.

In 1891 there is a John Macdonald, aged 34, b. Catterick, Yorkshire, said to be single, living at Cadwell Hall, Lincolnshire, occupation Butler.

Not sure if you have this:

1871 4817/76/36
Albion Road, Scarborough

John Mackdonald, 18yrs House Servant, b Castlebar, Ireland

In a large household with a variety of servants.

[groat]

I hadn't spotted John Mackdonald in Scarborough in 1871 - perhaps because of the variant spelling. It seems particularly significant as the family that he was with in Scarborough was living in Kirkby Fleetham in 1861, the same small village as Walter and Sarah and family. Doesn't this increasingly point to Patrick and John being brothers? Or is there another John McDonald/Macdonald hitherto undiscovered - at least by me? And Lucy still seems difficult to pin down.

When you say her father signed the certificate, do you mean he was a witness? - Yes

Is the wedding report something you have in the family? - Yes, but somewhere in its history it has been torn into small pieces. I've pieced together one page . What else do you think the other pages might reveal (I can read them all but it's very difficult to post the whole document online if it's unlikely to be useful).