Sergeant Alex Milne Postmaster of Torphichen

[MonicaL]

I don't think actually that Mary Berry was married to Mr Milne. Andrew's 1872 birth entry shows his surname as Berry www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYTW-VD4

There is also this 1868 birth entry with a James Milne and Mary Berry as parents www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYGK-RVS

Not sure how much work you have already done on your grandmother's paternal and maternal grandparents, so will leave it there.

Monica

[DudelsackHogg]

Wow. Thank you so much. This forum is really lucky to have people like you.

Mary Berry is indeed Andrew’s mother - full name Mary Booth Berry on James and Janet’s 1908 marriage certificate.

A lot of information to go through and time to top up my Scotland’s People credits.

Your contribution is amazing, thank you. Have a great Easter.

[DudelsackHogg]

This is the marriage certificate of Mary and Andrew. I find it very hard to read.

Andrew GARDNER and Mary BERRY
1882
282/4 177
St Andrew (Dundee)

It looks like the right one, I see Booth there.

Both Andrew and Mary are listed as widowers. It looks like Mary has two names listed under 'Widow of' It looks like Milne appears as a witness.

Really hard to read, perhaps one for the handwriting deciphering forum.

[DudelsackHogg]

I looked up the actual census return to see what was written for myself.

Andrew Gardnar 47 shore lab b. Dysart, Fife
Mary Gardnar 45 b. St Nicholas, Aberdeen   
Mary A Melne 23 Step Daur b. St Nicholas, Aberdeen
Alexr Melne 10 Step Son b. St Nicholas, Aberdeen*
Willm Melne 11 Step Son b. Dundee
Andrewina Gordne 5 Daur b. Markinch, Fife
James Gordne 3 Son b. Dundee

Address: 53 Ann St, Dundee

Thanks again. I feel like I'm getting somewhere now.

[Forfarian]

This is the marriage certificate of Mary and Andrew. I find it very hard to read.

Ah, yes, that Registrar in Dundee with the famously terrible handwriting. Probably the most illegible Registrar in the records. I've had a go:

1882, Twenty Sixth June, 28 Lilybank Road, Dundee …. Church of Scotland
Andrew Gardner, shipping porter, widower of Helen ?Brickland?, 38 or 58, 60 Trinidad Lane, Dundee, Robert Gardner, linen …. Jane Gardner MS Gray (dec)
Mary Berry, widow of James Mill, tinsmith journ, 67, 28 Lilybank Road, Dundee, James Berry, ….., (dec), Mary Berry MS Booth
John Mills MA Minister in Church of Scotland St Matthews Ch Dundee*
Charles Milne, witness; Eliza Jane ?, witness

*https://www.ecclegen.com/ confirms that John Mills was the minister of St Matthew's, Dundee, at the time.

The ages are especially hard to decipher! Given that only one of each set of parents was deceased, I don't believe 58 for him or 67 for her.

[MonicaL]

One of the reasons I asked whether Andrew Gardner showed as widowed is because of this 1881 census entry:

Andrew Gardner 38 dock lab. b. Dysart Fife
Helen Gardner 36 b. Ireland
Jane Gardner 13  b. Markinch Fife
Catherine Gardner 10 b. Markinch Fife
Isabella Gardner 7 b. Markinch Fife    
Helen Gardner 5 b. Kilpt. Dumbarton
John Gardner 6 Months

Address: 117 Blackscroft, Dundee

Wonder what happened with the children as none of them show with Andrew and Mary in 1891.

Helen's death is indexed on SP as Helen Gardner/ BRICHTANEY. Age 37 when she died in 1881 in st Mary's Dundee. Her mother's maiden name shows as McCormick.

Andrew GARDINER and Helen BRIGHTNEY married in Dundee in 1866.

Monica

[MonicaL]

I wasn't sure if Mary Berry and James Milne were actually married because of the way Alexander's 1872 birth was indexed with the surname Berry only.

There is a marriage showing in Aberdeen though in 1865 which looks like Mary Berry and James Milne's marriage www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTJX-KXS Easy enough for you to check and compare her parents' names against it.

The only two births I could see with James Milne as father were:

Mary Ann 1866 www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYR4-F9C
Jemima 1868 www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYGK-RVS - she died 1882 in Dundee

By 1872 when Alexander was born, he showed, as mentioned, under Berry. Can't easily see them on the 1871 census to try and see whetherhusband James Milne was still alive.

Monica

[MonicaL]

From the 1882 marriage and parents' details above, this looks like Mary's christening entry www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XBQ4-2YL

Have you used Family Search before? You just need to register for free to use. You need to be signed in to view the links I have added. Useful tool to check birth and marriage Scottish indexes together with Scotlands People.

Also, in case you haven't used it before, www.freecen.org.uk  As the name implies, free to use! Has now really good coverage of Aberdenshire censuses. 100% coverage of censuses between 1841 to 1871.

And with the help of FreeCen, have now found the Milne family in 1871 www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59026f33e9379091b1ed23df/jemima-milne-1871-aberdeenshire-aberdeen-1868-?locale=en

Monica

[DudelsackHogg]

Ah, yes, that Registrar in Dundee with the famously terrible handwriting. Probably the most illegible Registrar in the records.

Ha ha, I love that this registrar has found infamy. You would think that legibility would be a prerequisite for such a profession. I am amazed you were able to decipher so much, even knowing what I think the entries should say, I still struggle to read it. I am particularly impressed you decoded - tinsmith. Well done and thank you.

Monica, I had seen that 1881 census entry too and also wondered about the children. Thanks for finding the death, that was on my to do list.

The family search christening date is correct, I now have the original from SP. I do use the family search from time to time - I don’t find it so user friendly but perhaps that’s more a user problem. Freecen and the Freereg are great.

This puzzle is all falling together now. Thank you for your amazing help.