Smith Conundrum

[tazzie]

There's a Smith connection here in 1911.....

George Cleaton hd m 29
Mrs. G Cleaton wi m 28.        John Alfred sister Ada married George Cleaton in 1905.
 John Alfred and 3 brothers are living with them as well as...
AMY SMITH U 15 Cousin.

 Tazzie

[littleem1906]

As you can see it's quite a conundrum.

I found the army records for Alonzo Smith and he lists his wife as Florence Susanna, and they have two daughters. Florence Leah born in 1903 & Elsie Virginia in 1907 (or 1909). I'm not sure of the date that the war records were completed, as I'm not overly familiar with these documents. Though if they're late than 1915 it seems odd that he wouldn't list his son.

This makes me think that Alonzo Smith can't be my John Alfred's father. Which puts me back to square one!

I know I have the right birth certificate (hopefully!) because a family member had started the family tree years and years back and identified the mother as Florence Susanna Platford. I was told this was correct  - but of course it could be wrong, with a name like Smith. Unfortunately that family member is no longer living so I can't ask her how she confirmed this. It seems strange to me that the family would say there was a 'Whitehouse' connection. My grandmother (who was married to John Alfred Smith's son) said the family were told John Alfred's real name was Whitehouse but that he'd changed it to Smith.

[littleem1906]

Just to start with a name like Smith are you 100% sure you have the right birth certificate for John Alfred?

Did he have siblings we can check their births for?

No siblings that I know of. We don't know a lot about that family line but no siblings were ever mentioned.

[littleem1906]

There is a Florence Susanna Platford who married an Alonzo Smith.

That marriage was 20 July 1903. 

When was the other marriage? 

Just wondering if A Smith and John Alfred W could be the same person  but if you have found both couples separately I guess not.

I had originally thought they were. In 1939 I found the following:
There is a Florence Smith (born 17/3/1874) living with a John A Smith.
There is also a Florence Whitehouse (11/11/1883) living with John A Whitehouse.
There is a Florence Smith (born 28/9/1884) living with Alonzo Smith.

[littleem1906]

All very confusing
There is a marriage in June q 1942 between a John Alfred Whitehouse and a Florence S Smith, Birmingham.
Florence Susannah Platford born in Norfolk in 1883 parents William and Harriet.
Could she have married Alonzo in 1903 ( who appears to have died in 1942 according to online trees) and then become estranged. All supposition really, I see the Alonzo/Florence s marriage had 2 possible daghters in 1903 and 1907 (according to tree)
If you have Florences birth certificate with birthdate that may help in the 1939 register or possibly a death if after c 1970.
Sorry not much help really, just thinking aloud.
Cathy

This was my first thought. That she had married Alonzo and then later John A Whitehouse. Though this wouldn't explain why my John Alfred Smith had 'John A Smith' listed as his father on his birth certificate in 1915. In the 1939 England and Wales register there is evidence that the couple Florence & Alonzo were still together.

[littleem1906]

There's also a Florence Susanna who married John Alfred Whitehouse. Clearly two different women as they each appear in the 1939 census with their husbands.

Just need to clarify when this marriage took place as it can't be 1942 if the couple appear together in 1939

Ah good spot. The marriage I had for them was 1942 so it must be different people? (So confusing!) In the electoral rolls for 1939 I found Florence Susanna living with John Alfred Whitehouse at 5 Lime Grove, Handsworth. She is listed as Florence Susannah Whitehouse. Could she have just been using his name prior to actually being married?

[tazzie]

Going back to the start....

 John Alfred b 1915....did he marry? Do you have the cert?

 Does he appear on 1939? If he's there it's a different birth date poss the one 30th March .
 Also date details for death cert?

 Tazzie

[littleem1906]

Going back to the start....

 John Alfred b 1915....did he marry? Do you have the cert?

 Does he appear on 1939? If he's there it's a different birth date poss the one 30th March .
 Also date details for death cert?

 Tazzie

He married Alice Elsie Taylor. I've just found them in 1939. John Alfred's birth date is listed as 30th March 1915. Looks like my birth certificate was the wrong one after all - as I had John Alfred born on 13th March! (Just shows you can't rely on family sometimes)

[Dundee]

Just need to clarify when this marriage took place as it can't be 1942 if the couple appear together in 1939

Oh shock, horror, they weren't married! 

The Florence with Alonzo in 1939 is not Florence PLATFORD. I think she was Florence RUSSELL nee BROOKES.  Others with them are RUSSELL/BROOKES child and SMITH/BROOKES children.  Her husband Alfred Horace was KIA in 1918.

Debra