Author Topic: Martha Harris, Straw Bonnet Maker in a caravan in Lambeth  (Read 1312 times)

Offline cad

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Martha Harris, Straw Bonnet Maker in a caravan in Lambeth
« on: Tuesday 06 April 21 18:19 BST (UK) »
Hi there, any help on this topic would be gratefully received.

An ancestor of mine William Binden married to Harriet Crouch in 1860, Lambeth.
Somes years back I found a census entry for a Harriet in 1851 which ( if it is indeed her ) places her in a caravan on Brandon Street with a lady- apparently her aunt , Martha Harris- a Straw Bonnet Maker. I found this intriguing but at the time had other lines to research so left it on the back burner.

I took advantage of the free weekend at Ancestry to try to confirm if this was my Harriet and if so, how did she come to be in a caravan on Brandon street.
I already found Harriet's marriage so was certain of her father's name and had found him in 1851.
Robert Judd Crouch was an Upholsterer married to Amelia Martha Francis Burrell, in 1851 they are living on Burton st with children Augustus and Francis- but not Harriet (abt 1839).
In order to confirm Martha Harris as an aunt, I have tried to find marriages between Burrell or Crouch with Harris but not found anything.
I have found all Robert's census entries and his will from 1864. He and Amelia's oldest son was Alfred Burrell Crouch (1826) who was in India with the 61st Foot reg. In 1871, a widowed Amelia is living with him.
My theory is that Harriet was sent to help the widowed Martha in her business.
I would be fascinated to learn more about Martha Harris (abt 1785 born Berks) and the caravan, I hope others find this subject interesting too.
I have tried to add an attachment of the census entry but repeated attempts to reduce the file size have failed- if I succeed I will add it on.
Thank you  :)
Wiltshire,Somerset : Cainey, Summers, Payne, Wallis,
Wales: Pugh, Watkins, Williams, Edwards,
London: Binden, Sullivan, Tickner, Tilt
Ireland: Tracey, Sullivan, Dalton

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Martha Harris, Straw Bonnet Maker in a caravan in Lambeth
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 06 April 21 18:31 BST (UK) »
I have tried to add an attachment of the census entry but repeated attempts to reduce the file size have failed- if I succeed I will add it on.
Thank you  :)

Take a snippet of the relevant information (I use Windows Snipping Tool).
You shouldn't post an image of the whole page, in any case (See RC Guidelines)
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline PaulineJ

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Re: Martha Harris, Straw Bonnet Maker in a caravan in Lambeth
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 06 April 21 18:31 BST (UK) »
So you don't have a documented birth or baptism for your Harriet?
An what names witness this marriage?

Just give URLs for census entries, (Familysearch ones are open to all)
As it is we know no ages/birthplaces for the family group whom you have taken to be harriet's birth family

This is the 1841?
https://www.familysearch.org/search/ark:/61903/1:1:MQKX-H5X
All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
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Offline softly softly

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Re: Martha Harris, Straw Bonnet Maker in a caravan in Lambeth
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 06 April 21 18:32 BST (UK) »
Just as a starter.

Birth:
CROUCH, Harriet    mother's maiden name BURRELL 
GRO Reference: 1838  J Quarter in LAMBETH  Volume 04  Page 300

John


Offline softly softly

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Re: Martha Harris, Straw Bonnet Maker in a caravan in Lambeth
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 06 April 21 18:35 BST (UK) »
Witnesses at Harriet's marriage were a Robert Judd Crouch and Frances Crouch.

John

Added: Frances Crouch was Harriet's younger sister aged 5 month's on 1841 census.

Offline cad

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Re: Martha Harris, Straw Bonnet Maker in a caravan in Lambeth
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 06 April 21 18:46 BST (UK) »
Yes, I have the marriage, took place at St Andrew Holborn August 1822, one witness being Francis Burrell.
Given the way names were handed down the family, I might assume that Francis might be the bride's mother or sister- given that Robert and Amelia name a daughter Francis. The only birth record I have found for their children is for Alfred and Amelia,  both baptised at St Martin in the Fields Nov 26th 1826. The only mention I have found so far of Amelia.
Please note it is Martha Harris I am curious about, but any input is valuable.
Thanks for your interest so far.
Wiltshire,Somerset : Cainey, Summers, Payne, Wallis,
Wales: Pugh, Watkins, Williams, Edwards,
London: Binden, Sullivan, Tickner, Tilt
Ireland: Tracey, Sullivan, Dalton

Offline PaulineJ

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Re: Martha Harris, Straw Bonnet Maker in a caravan in Lambeth
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 06 April 21 18:49 BST (UK) »
If Robert Judd Crouch and his wife were both born Middlesex/Surrey, it seems less likely that either of THEIR siblings would be born Berkshire?

Were there any Martha Judd / Crouch/ Burrell baptised about right time/right place to "match" Martha Harris?
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Offline cad

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Re: Martha Harris, Straw Bonnet Maker in a caravan in Lambeth
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 06 April 21 19:46 BST (UK) »
It is probably a red herring but I did find an Elizabeth Herries born to Robert and Mary Crouch in 1790,
just now I can't find the location but I believe it was Berkshire. That was the only connection I could find in the short amount of free time I had.

Has anyone found any other documentary evidence for Martha Harris ?

I agree that the place of birth being Berkshire makes it a stretch that she actually is my Harriet's aunt but, as I didn't find Harriet in the same household as her parents in the same census, I am clinging to the idea that she might be a cousin or great aunt. It wouldn't be the first time in my family that a more distant rellie has been known as Aunt or Uncle.
If anyone can find a better candidate for my Harriet in 1851, I would be grateful to put out of my misery ( although I do still find the idea of a straw bonnet maker living and working from a caravan in Lambeth quite fascinating- so Dickensian).
Wiltshire,Somerset : Cainey, Summers, Payne, Wallis,
Wales: Pugh, Watkins, Williams, Edwards,
London: Binden, Sullivan, Tickner, Tilt
Ireland: Tracey, Sullivan, Dalton

Offline cad

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Re: Martha Harris, Straw Bonnet Maker in a caravan in Lambeth
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 07 April 21 00:06 BST (UK) »
Census Brandon St 1851

Sorry this is so blurry- the original on Ancestry isn'y much sharper. I can't quite make out what the census taker has added under the line, looks like " deduct 2 ******* caravan"
Wiltshire,Somerset : Cainey, Summers, Payne, Wallis,
Wales: Pugh, Watkins, Williams, Edwards,
London: Binden, Sullivan, Tickner, Tilt
Ireland: Tracey, Sullivan, Dalton