The Adelaide Brickwall - possibly Black Patch Gypsy

[rustyh]

I had the death certificate through for Adelaide today, but as expected very little information to help. I was hoping there would be a useful name under the Informant, but not to be.
It just confirms the information we already know of Maiden Name "Hall" and D.o.B 4/1/1900

[rustyh]

The passenger list for Matilda and Albert Vale with their five children states they are going to Albert's brother-in-law Joseph Smith in Connecticut.
So Matilda is sister to Joseph.  However, Joseph's marriage address of 44 Downing St. leads to a John and Caroline Smith that show in 1901 (from memory) at the same as the John and Caroline with Amy and baby Adelaide are shown.  Somehow these families got merged into one.
Gah!
Also, on one of that Camelia's marriages, she says her father is John Smith, General Dealer.

It is possible on the 1901 where John/Caroline show as having Eliza Potter and Adelaide Hall as grandchildren, they should have said grandniece.... at least for Eliza?

John and Caroline Smith nee Lovell, are Joseph and Matilda's Parents.

They are also Amelia Smiths paretns, whom married Rueben Potter and had daughter Eliza Potter. So John and Caroline are Eliza Potters Grand Parents

Joseph Marriage cert has Father as John Smith, and then Whitnesses of Florence Smith and Albert Edward Vale
Albert is as above, Matilda's Husband. Florence I can not find in the tree, possibly one of the missing Spouses I havnt found yet.

Joseph and Matilda had around 10 Siblings, as follows

John Smith and Caroline Smith nee Lovells - Children
John Smith (1861)
Nathaniel Smith (1865)
Centenia Smith (1868)
Amelia Smith (1869)
Matilda Smith (1872)
Georgina Smith (1874)
Arnold Smith (1876)
Joseph Smith (1877)
Amy Smith (1880)
Angelina Smrtih (1883)
Wrighton Smith (1887)
Reto (Rito, Rilo) Smith (1888)


Note: I have not confirm all these as true yet, and these from the published tree I have.

[rustyh]

Downing Street by the way is very close to Black Patch Park as well, practically leads off Foundry Lane

[osprey]

there are 2 different couples named John & Caroline Smith.

your couple at Black Patch in 1901
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSQP-1H1

& 1891
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WQ8N-Q6Z

no Joseph or Matilda with them

And then the other John & Caroline Smith who in 1901 are living at the same address given by Joseph Smith on this marriage to Mary Ann Pearse
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSQP-KB1

1893 marriage for Matilda
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NXR3-GCP
address given on marriage register for Matilda is William Street

This Smith family is in William Street in 1891 with a Matilda & a Joseph
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WQ8F-CW2

As MonicaL said some posts backs, it looks like someone has conflated 2 different families in their research.

[rustyh]

Right, sorry, hadnt caught that, blimey, it's a. A mess

[rustyh]

This isn't a potential other Matilda Smith is it 

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/sharing/23794660?h=1d69a5

[MonicaL]

Hi Black Patch team 

Sorry for absence. Sometimes real life takes over again 

Russ, from your list of children for John and Caroline, I think these two are the same person:

Wrighton Smith (1887)
Reto (Rito, Rilo) Smith (1888)

I think Rito (and the rest) are very likely just variants of the name Wrighton.

Monica

[MonicaL]

I also wondered whether daughter Centenia b. 1868 from your list, could also have been known as Rosanna? We have a 3 yr old daughter Roseanna showing in that messy 1871 census from earlier www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5RR-7WL

Monica

[MonicaL]

Have we got this? Carmelia/Amelia's christening entry www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NYDQ-LS4

Purely hypothetical, I would suggest that the 1871 census for the family (the really messy one!) should probably have read something like this:

John/Mezie Smith...we have 2 entries, father/head, ages 25 and 30
Leanne...we are guessing this is Caroline. We have 2 entries, both wife, age 30 and 24
John Smith 10 son
Nathaniel Smith 6 son
Centenia/Rosanna 3 daughter...have any registrations been found for Centenia?
Camilia 2 daughter...reads 22 daughter in law, which makes no sense
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NYDQ-LS4

Monica