Author Topic: Is this the same couple?  (Read 383 times)

Offline Bee

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Is this the same couple?
« on: Thursday 08 April 21 15:40 BST (UK) »
1st marriage
Cornelius Holmes, servant of the parish of Leven in the county of York & Charlotte Appleyard of the parish married 22 May 1826 by licence at St Denis & St George, York

2nd marriage
Cornelius Holmes, bachelor & Charlotte Appleyard, spinster, both of the parish married 12 July 1826 by banns at St James, Gt Grimsby.

Cornelius in the first marriage was a widower, his first wife Margaret died 1820 in Leven, East Yorkshire.

If the first marriage took place and was then found to be illegal would there be any record of this?

The reason I'm trying to prove or disprove that they are the same couple is the possibility that Charlotte was the illegitimate daughter of of his first wife.

Any help much appreciated



Dinsdale, Ellis, Gee, Goldsmith,Green,Hawks,Holmes,  Lacey, Longhorn, Pickersgill, Quantrill,Tuthill, Tuttle & Walker,  in E & W Yorks, Lincs, Norfolk & Suffolk. Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline manukarik

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Re: Is this the same couple?
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 08 April 21 15:50 BST (UK) »
Very strange! Unusual names and married so close in time but in different counties. I had a look online at both entries and for both the Yorkshire and Lincolnshire marriages, neither the Groom nor Bride could sign their name. I had hoped to get a clue from their signatures...

For what it's worth the mark of Bride and Groom in each county looks very similar.
Clarkson, Tolladay, Prevost, Killick, Hicks

Online BumbleB

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Re: Is this the same couple?
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 08 April 21 16:19 BST (UK) »
Just to add that the transcription of the Bond or Allegation for the York marriage says that Cornelius is aged 35 and Charlotte is 21.

Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
If you don't ask the question, you won't get an answer.
He/she who never made a mistake, never made anything.
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY


Offline philipsearching

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Re: Is this the same couple?
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 08 April 21 19:42 BST (UK) »
I think it must be the same couple.  I had a look on FamilySearch for the couple on censuses, but they were not there as a couple.  There was only one Cornelius HOLMES on England/Wales censuses:
1841 Skirlaugh, Yorkshire: (all HOLMES) Cornelius 50, Henry 14, Robert 10, Elenia 10 (HO107, 1221/6, p4)
1851 Skirlaugh, Yorkshire: (all HOLMES) Cornelius 60, Sarah 40 wife, Dinah 7 daughter, Leavesay Appleyard 1 daughter (HO107, 2365/311, p8)
1861 Skirlaugh, Yorkshire HOLMES Cornelius 74, wid, lodger (RG09, 3605/18, p5)

So, only one Cornelius HOLMES on the England/Wales censuses 1841.  The daughter's name on the 1851 census indicates he is your man.

Not all marriage bonds are followed by a marriage, but it seems that Cornelius did marry Charlotte twice.  Very strange.  If Cornelius' first wife died in 1820 he was a widower not a bigamist in 1825.  So, was Charlotte under age in 1825 (requiring parental consent)?  This could account for the second marriage a year later over 60 miles away in a different county. Bride and groom being both "of the parish" just means that they had been in residence for a while.

Unless the vicar or parish clerk of St Denis & St George, York were told that the York marriage was not legal there would be no record.  Maybe the couple went to Grimsby to 'make it legal' to avoid any possibility of children being labelled as illegitimate?
Please help me to help you by citing sources for information.

Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Bee

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Re: Is this the same couple?
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 08 April 21 20:11 BST (UK) »
Thank you for all your interest.
A pity that the Grimsby marriage didn't give the ages.

I have the family going forward, though Charlotte seems to be called Sarah on the 1851 census, and though Cornelius states that he is a widow on the 1861 census, he isn't, his wife and some of their children are living with another man.

What I need to find now is a birth/baptism and parents for Cornelius.

I know that there are trees on a certain site but they do contain a lot of errors.


Dinsdale, Ellis, Gee, Goldsmith,Green,Hawks,Holmes,  Lacey, Longhorn, Pickersgill, Quantrill,Tuthill, Tuttle & Walker,  in E & W Yorks, Lincs, Norfolk & Suffolk. Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Jadeish

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Re: Is this the same couple?
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 13 October 21 11:01 BST (UK) »
There is a record for a Charlotte Appleyard born 25th Jan and baptised on 10th Feb 1808 in Acklam (birth location listed on the 1851 census), the daughter of Margaret Appleyard.no father listed so most likely illegitimate.

Her age of 21 for the York marriage suggests a birth year of 1804/5, although the 1851 census lists her as 40 so a birth year of 1810/11. I wonder if she lied about her age when getting married as she couldn't have parental permission as her mother was dead? I'd take the census age with a pinch of salt as it would have been entered by the enumerator and censuses are filled with errors.

Have you had any luck finding a grave? Even if there isn't a stone, there may still be a burial plan for you to have a look who's buried in the same grave.

Offline Bee

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Re: Is this the same couple?
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 14 October 21 00:09 BST (UK) »
Hi Jadeish

Yes I have Charlotte's baptism, plus her marriage to her late mother's husband, census records and death. What I'm really searching for is the parentage of Cornelius Holmes.

Thanks for your interest.

Bee
Dinsdale, Ellis, Gee, Goldsmith,Green,Hawks,Holmes,  Lacey, Longhorn, Pickersgill, Quantrill,Tuthill, Tuttle & Walker,  in E & W Yorks, Lincs, Norfolk & Suffolk. Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk