Author Topic: Elizabeth LEWIS/THOMAS nee Wake b.1841  (Read 227 times)

Offline ValJJJ

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Re: Elizabeth LEWIS/THOMAS nee Wake b.1841
« Reply #9 on: Monday 12 April 21 09:58 BST (UK) »
You're right Tazzie.  On the marriage cert it says Cheltenham Wake Lewis.  Which I interpreted as John Wake who later called himself John Cheltenham Wake who was a landscape artist.

I recall reading somewhere that if the father's name is identical to the groom's it probably is an invention. 
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Online rosie99

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Re: Elizabeth LEWIS/THOMAS nee Wake b.1841
« Reply #10 on: Monday 12 April 21 15:06 BST (UK) »
it may be an idea to get the pdf of one of the registrations to see what the detail is.

Yes, could be John P and/or Elizabeth were not free to marry.


Often in these situations if the certificate mentions the father it is also indexed under that name under the same reference number like the examples I posted on this thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=847280.
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline ValJJJ

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Re: Elizabeth LEWIS/THOMAS nee Wake b.1841
« Reply #11 on: Monday 12 April 21 19:39 BST (UK) »
Thanks for that tip Rosie99 but it doesn't seem to be the case for the Wake Lewis children. 
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Offline ValJJJ

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Re: Elizabeth LEWIS/THOMAS nee Wake b.1841
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 13 April 21 08:32 BST (UK) »
I've found a mistake when starting again with this, working backwards from Cheltenham Wake Lewis born Dec 1880 with birth reg in 1881.

Because I was looking for a Wake connection for his mother Elizabeth, I assumed her maiden name was Wake, and leapt to the conclusion that she was Elizabeth Mary Wake who married Richard Thomas. However the bride was of King St, Westminster, where her father Charles Wake, plumber,  lived, and her brother Charles Henry (not father as originally thought), plumber, unmarried, and sister Caroline Jane, unmarried, continued to live.  The bride is shown in the 1851 census as born in St Margarets, Westminster.

Elizabeth Lewis (who might be nee Wake) is on various censuses as born in Kent, not Westminster. Either Erith or Ash, depending on the census.

I want to establish the link that meant she was executor for John (Cheltenham) Wake, born in Middx.  His father was John Wake, born in Middx, a coach trimmer, and in St Giles in the 1841 census.  The family were in Liverpool in 1851 where they remained, but John Cheltenham Wake (born abt 1835; apprentice gilder in 1851 in Liverpool) returned to Middx at some point.  I haven't been able to find him on any other census though.
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Offline scotmum

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Re: Elizabeth LEWIS/THOMAS nee Wake b.1841
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 04 May 21 11:24 BST (UK) »
the birth registrations for the Lewis children have no mother's maiden name suggesting that the parents were not married.

Cheltenham Wake Lewis dec qtr 1872 Islington vol 1b pg 378 mmn -
Cheltenham Wake Lewis march qtr 1881 Fulham vol 1a pg 213 mmn -
Beatrice Betty Wake Lewis dec qtr 1877 Fulham vol 1a pg 229 mmn -
Katherine Mary Wake Lewis march qtr 1875 Kensington vol 1a pg 236 mmn -

A 16yr old  Katherine Mary Wake Lewis recorded as an orphan in Orphanage of the Sisters of Bethany in 1891. A 13 yr old Beatrice Bessie [as transcribed] Wake Lewis also there.
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Offline ValJJJ

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Re: Elizabeth LEWIS/THOMAS nee Wake b.1841
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 04 May 21 13:22 BST (UK) »
Scotmum - that's intriguing.  Are these census entries or from some other record? 

I have in the 1891 census, at 1 Lime Grove, Hammersmith, Elizabeth Lewis (the mother) listed as a widow, with son Jack, 10 (that would be Cheltenham Wake Lewis born 1880) and a boarder, Elizabeth Gould, 51, born Shoreditch, along with 3 other female boarders.

In the 1901 census at 2 Lime Grove, there's Elizabeth Lewis with John, son, 26 (presumably Cheltenham again) and Beatrice.  Elizabeth Gould is listed again, with 2 other female boarders. No Kate. 

Kate died in 1909 with the death registered in Kensington.

In the 1911 census there's Elizabeth Lewis and Beatrice at 30 Coverdale Rd, Hammersmith, with her married son Jack (whose wife in 1911 had just given birth to their son Ivan and was listed as a boarder at a doctor's house, and whose daughter was with the grandparents). Plus one boarder, Elizabeth Gould.

So not orphans but perhaps more of a workhouse arrangement?

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Offline ValJJJ

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Re: Elizabeth LEWIS/THOMAS nee Wake b.1841
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 04 May 21 13:36 BST (UK) »
I can see now the 1891 census entries for the Wake Lewis children.  Wonder how they ended up in Christchurch? 

There's a possible same Kate Lewis for 1901, servant, 26, born London, at Russell Hill, Purley (Beddington parish) in the Mitcham sub district of Croydon.  Working at an orphan school - Warehousemen Clerks and Drapers School.
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Offline scotmum

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Re: Elizabeth LEWIS/THOMAS nee Wake b.1841
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 04 May 21 13:56 BST (UK) »
Yes, as you have now seen, it was the census. I've come across instances before of children being placed in orphanages without actually being orphans, as well as instances, too, of some remaining on as workers in later years (one in particular comes to mind, where the female in question had, I think, a learning disability, and once she turned an adult, could not have easily supported herself elsewhere).


"Trees without roots fall over!"
 
""People who never look backward to their ancestors will never look forward to posterity." - Edmund Burke

Don't just wait for the storm to pass, learn to dance in the rain.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious and however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at.”  Stephen Hawking

In a world where you can be anything, be kind .