Author Topic: Strange registration  (Read 1570 times)

Offline chris_49

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Re: Strange registration
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 13 April 21 09:32 BST (UK) »
I have a lady who registered her two illegitimate children with her (still married) partner's surname not only as the registered surname but also (falsely) as her own maiden name.

Maybe she was hoping to imply that her children were legitimate, but given the rare surname the registration created the opposite implication?
Skelcey (Skelsey Skelcy Skeley Shelsey Kelcy Skelcher) - Warks, Yorks, Lancs <br />Hancox - Warks<br />Green - Warks<br />Draper - Warks<br />Lynes - Warks<br />Hudson - Warks<br />Morris - Denbs Mont Salop <br />Davies - Cheshire, North Wales<br />Fellowes - Cheshire, Denbighshire<br />Owens - Cheshire/North Wales<br />Hicks - Cornwall<br />Lloyd and Jones (Mont)<br />Rhys/Rees (Mont)

Online AntonyMMM

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Re: Strange registration
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 13 April 21 09:41 BST (UK) »
I have a lady who registered her two illegitimate children with her (still married) partner's surname not only as the registered surname but also (falsely) as her own maiden name.

She didn't register the children under any surname ( unless it was after 1969) ....

She may well have lied to say the children were legitimate, but knowing that would depend on exactly how the entries are worded (not something you can tell from the index alone).


Offline chris_49

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Re: Strange registration
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 13 April 21 09:47 BST (UK) »
I have a lady who registered her two illegitimate children with her (still married) partner's surname not only as the registered surname but also (falsely) as her own maiden name.

She didn't register the children under any surname ( unless it was after 1969) ....

She may well have lied to say the children were legitimate, but knowing that would depend on exactly how the entries are worded (not something you can tell from the index alone).

Fair point, but not the point I was making.

She used her partner's surname, which she had been using for some time according to my informant, a near relative. But why did she feel the need to claim that her birth name was the same as her partner's?
Skelcey (Skelsey Skelcy Skeley Shelsey Kelcy Skelcher) - Warks, Yorks, Lancs <br />Hancox - Warks<br />Green - Warks<br />Draper - Warks<br />Lynes - Warks<br />Hudson - Warks<br />Morris - Denbs Mont Salop <br />Davies - Cheshire, North Wales<br />Fellowes - Cheshire, Denbighshire<br />Owens - Cheshire/North Wales<br />Hicks - Cornwall<br />Lloyd and Jones (Mont)<br />Rhys/Rees (Mont)

Online AntonyMMM

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Re: Strange registration
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 13 April 21 10:35 BST (UK) »
I'd be happy to have a look at the certificate you have and give an opinion on it if you wish. Contact me via PM.


Online KGarrad

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Re: Strange registration
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 13 April 21 11:41 BST (UK) »
Under the Laws of England & Wales, a person can call themselves anything they like!
Just as long as there is no intention to deceive or defraud.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline chris_49

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Re: Strange registration
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 13 April 21 11:47 BST (UK) »
I'd be happy to have a look at the certificate you have and give an opinion on it if you wish. Contact me via PM.

Thanks but it's the nearer relative who has the cert, which I (stupidly) didn't ask for a scan of - it was many years ago. I'll try to look her up on Ancestry or GR or FindMyPast or whatever it was.
Skelcey (Skelsey Skelcy Skeley Shelsey Kelcy Skelcher) - Warks, Yorks, Lancs <br />Hancox - Warks<br />Green - Warks<br />Draper - Warks<br />Lynes - Warks<br />Hudson - Warks<br />Morris - Denbs Mont Salop <br />Davies - Cheshire, North Wales<br />Fellowes - Cheshire, Denbighshire<br />Owens - Cheshire/North Wales<br />Hicks - Cornwall<br />Lloyd and Jones (Mont)<br />Rhys/Rees (Mont)

Offline chris_49

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Re: Strange registration
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 13 April 21 11:53 BST (UK) »
I'd be happy to have a look at the certificate you have and give an opinion on it if you wish. Contact me via PM.

Thanks but it's the nearer relative who has the cert, which I (stupidly) didn't ask for a scan of - it was many years ago. I'll try to look her up on Ancestry or GR or FindMyPast or whatever it was.

I think that's how I know that it was the woman who went to the registry office, rather than the man which is I think more usual for births. It was thanks to this near relative that I knew that she had children at all - her marriage was a generation later when she was pushing 50   - there'd be no clues from the (presumed still living) children's birth records.
Skelcey (Skelsey Skelcy Skeley Shelsey Kelcy Skelcher) - Warks, Yorks, Lancs <br />Hancox - Warks<br />Green - Warks<br />Draper - Warks<br />Lynes - Warks<br />Hudson - Warks<br />Morris - Denbs Mont Salop <br />Davies - Cheshire, North Wales<br />Fellowes - Cheshire, Denbighshire<br />Owens - Cheshire/North Wales<br />Hicks - Cornwall<br />Lloyd and Jones (Mont)<br />Rhys/Rees (Mont)

Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: Strange registration
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 13 April 21 12:28 BST (UK) »
There's also a weird thing the GRO does when both parents are named on the certificate but state they aren't married to each other - they index it under the father's surname but with no mmn.

In those instances I'd expect the FreeBMD entry to have both surnames, but perhaps they didn't do that in the early days of civil registration?

Yes but the GRO is not consistent, as mentioned elsewhere my grandmother and grandfather were not married until well after their 4 children were born because my grandfather was already married but his first wife would not give him a divorce.
They had 2 daughters, a son, then the final daughter before their marriage.

The Online Index allows searches under Father's surname only.
The online GRO index adds a line where the mothers maiden name should appear on the first two daughters entries, their mother's maiden surname for the son and it is simply blank for the last daughter.

Their certificates state :-

father's surname and mother's maiden surname for 1st and 2nd daughter;
father's surname however her mother is using the fathe'r surname by this time and that is given plus her maiden surname for the son and 3rd daughter



FreeBMD would not be able to list under both surnames, as they work solely from the GRO indices.

FreeBMD search under both Father's surname and Mother's maiden surname for 1st daughter and show both names on returned entry under father's surname search, but only mother's maiden surname under  mother's maiden surname search.

Search on only Mother's maiden surname for 2nd daughter and show only Mother's maiden surname on entry

Search on only Fathe'r surname for son & 3rd daughter, but show both Father's surname and Mother's maiden surname on the entry

Cheers
Guy



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Online AntonyMMM

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Re: Strange registration
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 13 April 21 13:32 BST (UK) »


Yes but the GRO is not consistent, as mentioned elsewhere my grandmother and grandfather were not married until well after their 4 children were born because my grandfather was already married but his first wife would not give him a divorce.
They had 2 daughters, a son, then the final daughter before their marriage.

The Online Index allows searches under Father's surname only.
The online GRO index adds a line where the mothers maiden name should appear on the first two daughters entries, their mother's maiden surname for the son and it is simply blank for the last daughter.

The on-line index does only index by father's surname where unmarried parents are both named (a mistake made at the time of digitisation I suspect), but you can search by mother's surname if no father is named on the entry.

If your grandparents weren't married then the blank (or dash) for the maiden name of the mother is correct, as a woman who has never married has no maiden name (for registration purposes).

The different rules used for the old printed indexes (as we see on FreeBMD), and the new GRO on-line index can however be very useful in working out was is most likely to be on a  register entry - something not possible from using just one index alone.