Author Topic: How common was Catholic and Protestant intermarriage in England in the 1790s?  (Read 942 times)

Offline Stanwix England

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UPDATE: After posting this I found out the Mary I am looking at is probably not the Catholic one born in Liverpool. Thank you anyway.

I'm currently trying to push back on a relative called Mary Morgan. The details are all a bit confusing.

What I do know is that she had two children with a man called William Porter, both born in Carlisle and baptised at St Mary's there - which according to my research is a protestant Church. They had George baptised in August 1790 and Mary baptised in 1795. There may have been other children but I have not been able to find them.

I don't know if they were married. The only marriage I've been able to find between a William Porter and Mary Morgan is in Liverpool in October 1789. I've currently got a thread going in the handwriting forum trying to work out what parish Mary was from. The wedding took place at what I believe again was a protestant church, St Peter's on Church Street, Liverpool.

Obviously I've currently got no proof this is them, and I don't know why they would have moved from Liverpool to Carlisle if this is what they did, although one record says William was a cabinet maker so maybe he moved for work? Although that's a pretty shaky idea really.

Pushing further back, I've been trying to identify where Mary Morgan might have been born. One record I've found that might fit is a Mary Morgan who was baptised in Liverpool on 28 Jun 1767. However this is a Catholic baptism, which brings me to the point of my title.

Would a Catholic marry a Protestant? Was that common enough for it to be a possibility or is that unlikely?

Thank you
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Offline MonicaL

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Re: How common was Catholic and Protestant intermarriage in England in the 1790s?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 20 April 21 14:11 BST (UK) »
I see you have updated your post but just to add, marriages between Catholics and Protestants at that time were considered illegal (although did take place). Good write up here www.geriwalton.com/catholic-protestant-weddings-regency-era/

Monica
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Offline trish1120

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Re: How common was Catholic and Protestant intermarriage in England in the 1790s?
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 20 April 21 14:13 BST (UK) »
Havent looked at your other query re the Marriage but FreeREG has Mary of Nannerch FLN
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Online AntonyMMM

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Re: How common was Catholic and Protestant intermarriage in England in the 1790s?
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 20 April 21 14:21 BST (UK) »
Mixed marriages were not "illegal" as such ....

This was the period when RC chapels were just starting to be tolerated and allowed to function, but Hardwicke's marriage act made it clear that all marriages (between 1753 and 1837), to be valid, had to take place in the CofE parish church.

If there was a local RC chapel you may find they also married there on the same day or the day after the CofE service.

My 3xG Grandparents did exactly that in 1804 - married in the parish church on 1st Feb. ( with no mention of the bride being a Catholic on the entry), and then on the next day (2nd Feb.) they married in the RC chapel a few miles away where  the entry has "NB a protestant" next to the groom's name.



Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: How common was Catholic and Protestant intermarriage in England in the 1790s?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 20 April 21 18:23 BST (UK) »

If there was a local RC chapel you may find they also married there on the same day or the day after the CofE service.

My 3xG Grandparents did exactly that in 1804 - married in the parish church on 1st Feb. ( with no mention of the bride being a Catholic on the entry), and then on the next day (2nd Feb.) they married in the RC chapel a few miles away where  the entry has "NB a protestant" next to the groom's name.

Your ancestors abided by the law by marrying in the parish church first and having a Catholic ceremony later. Having the 2 ceremonies in the wrong order was illegal. The Catholic wedding ceremony was supposed to be treated as a post-marriage blessing. A branch of my ancestors seemed to have deliberately flouted the law by always having the Catholic wedding first, usually the day before the C. of E. wedding although 6 weeks elapsed before one middle-aged couple got around to going to the parish church for the C. of E. wedding.
A Catholic priest who performed a marriage ceremony between a Catholic and a Protestant was breaking the law. One of the Catholic Relief Acts in late 18thC. reduced the punishment for this crime. It wouldn't have been a crime after those Catholic Relief Acts if the R.C. ceremony took place later than the Anglican one, in which case it could be regarded as a wedding blessing and therefore purely a religious service.   
Cowban

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: How common was Catholic and Protestant intermarriage in England in the 1790s?
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 20 April 21 21:12 BST (UK) »

What I do know is that she had two children with a man called William Porter, both born in Carlisle and baptised at St Mary's there - which according to my research is a protestant Church. They had George baptised in August 1790 and Mary baptised in 1795. There may have been other children but I have not been able to find them.

Names of Catholic babies were recorded in some C. of E. baptism registers in England in 18th century. It doesn't necessarily mean that they were baptised by an Anglican curate. There were 2 reasons for inclusion of Catholic children in Anglican baptism registers.

1. Penal laws against Catholics existed during that century. Church and civil authorities needed to know how many Catholics were in England, who they were and where they lived. Lists were kept - there were several "Returns of Papists" compiled in 18th century, arranged by county.
 Anglican curates were supposed to know who were Catholics in their parishes so that they could provide accurate information when asked to compile a "Return of Papists". Some curates kept a separate list of children born to "Papist" or "Recusant" parents.  Some wrote their names in the baptism register, either included in chronological order or added to the end of each year; they may have "Birth" written by the name or they may not. Some didn't bother keeping a record.

2. Births were taxed twice during 18thC. to pay war debts. Anglican curates were responsible for collecting those taxes. Amount collected had to tally with the list of births he kept. Obvious place to keep the record was in the baptism register. The last of those tax periods was 1780's-1790's to pay for American War of Independence.
A pair of my Catholic ancestors had 13 children born 1787-1810. Names + dates of the eldest 7, born 1787-1796 are in C. of E. baptism register because they were born when the tax was due. The younger 6 were born after the tax was abolished so there was no need for their names to be recorded by the Anglican curate. All 13 children were baptised by the Catholic chaplain and were recorded in his register. Their cousins, born in 1780's, were also in both registers.     
Cowban