1871 England (Northumberland) Census - Isabel(la) Young

[kevinf2349]

Maddy,

That is very interesting information and I am so very grateful. It would seem that both sides of my family had green fingers, I wonder what happened to mine? I am waiting for some PDFs from the GRO to validate some of my suspicions (or not!)

It has been very interesting and somewhat confusing with all the Mary Ann's the Roberts and the weird flip-flopping Joseph and Thomas ROWELLs.

Thanks for all your input. It is very much appreciated. Next time I am in Blighty I  think a trip to Acomb and Wall may be on a agenda

Best regards
Kevin

[kevinf2349]

The plot thickens!

I now have 2 DC's for Thomas and for Joseph ROWELL and 2 BC both for a Hannah ROWELL and all it did was further confuse the issue!

The Hannah ROWELL that fits shows father as William ROWELL, mother Isabella ROWELL (nee. CHARLTON). Hit! However, the father is listed as being a Hind, which seems a bit of a jump from being an Agricultural labourer. Anyway...she was born in 1845.

The other Hannah ROWELL (born 1844) shows mother as Mary ROWELL (nee. CHARLTON), father John ROWELL (occupation. Miller). I can't link this one in yet so it may be a red herring.

The deaths are seemingly unrelated too. The nearest fit seems to be

Thomas ROWELL (died 1860 aged 22).  Informant is listed as William ROWELL but no relationship annotated but could be his brother. He died in Allendale and is listed as a Lead Miner. Neither Allendale nor Lead Miner seem to fit but I am still researching this one.

The other is for Joseph ROWELL (died 1866 aged 48). The informant on this one is Robert ROWELL (again no relationship annotated). Now he died in Blyth and is listed as being a Colliery Horsekeeper (whatever that is!) so the area and age may be an issue. I am researching further but I am just not sure.

All these pesky ROWELL/CHARLTON unions are beyond a joke!

*** Update ***

I decided to track down the Hannah ROWELL and Edward OLIVER lineage to see if that tracked anywhere. I believe Edward passed away in 1876 but I can't find him in the 1871 census. I found his marriage to Hannah in 1869. Hannah is with the CHARLTON family in the 1871 census with her son Joseph OLIVER, but no sign of Edward. A Hannah OLIVER then appears in the 1881 census living with her brother along with her brood (5 children) which leads me to believe her husband is around somewhere as the youngest child is only 1 so the death of Edward in 1876 maybe a red herring. How can someone disappear from the census yet still be breeding?



Regards
Kevin

[Ruskie]

Sorry I don't have time to pursue this further at the moment, so will just make a quick comment regarding your two Hannah Rowell b/cs ...

Have you considered the possibility that two Rowell brothers (William and John) married two Charlton sisters (Isabella and Mary) and both had daughters which they called Hannah? There could also be some other kind of relationship such as cousins. What a tangled web. 

The marriage certificates naming the fathers of all four may clarify.

[kevinf2349]

Sorry I don't have time to pursue this further at the moment, so will just make a quick comment regarding your two Hannah Rowell b/cs ...

Have you considered the possibility that two Rowell brothers (William and John) married two Charlton sisters (Isabella and Mary) and both had daughters which they called Hannah? There could also be some other kind of relationship such as cousins. What a tangled web. 

The marriage certificates naming the fathers of all four may clarify.

Ruskie,

I am still investigating the ROWELL family but I haven't ruled out any possibility yet. It could be brothers or some other kin but at the moment I am still trying to unpick the ROWELLs. Fortunately FindMyPast has free access at the moment so I am downloading like crazy! The I can take some time to see if I can group them into some kind of order/family groups.

Fun, fun, fun.

Regards
Kevin

[Millmoor]

If you have access to FindMyPast at the moment you should be able to find a likely candidate for Edward Oliver in the 1871 census. He is recorded as a boarder living in Ryton, Woodside, Gateshead, a coke burner age 27 and married.

I also note that Hannah Oliver is recorded as a widow in both the 1881 and 1891 censuses. It does seem likely to me that the 1876 death is the correct one for Edward. This would therefore mean that he could not have been the father of her 2 youngest children, Elizabeth Ann and John Thomas.

I would not be concerned about the hind and agricultural labourer issue.  Agricultural labourer was a term used for all manner of farm servants. ( I have just read in the latest WDYTA magazine that it only became a widely used term from the 1841 census onwards).

William

[kevinf2349]

Millmoor,

Thanks for the heads-up on the Edward Oliver 1871 census entry. I have downloaded it.

I am still trying to unpick the ROWELL/CHARLTON spaghetti pile. It doesn't help when childhood deaths kick into play either. It looks like there could be some similar named (not sure if there is a connection between them yet) family groups too which isn't helping.

Oh well. Thanks again. I appreciate it.

Kevin

[maddys52]

The Hannah ROWELL that fits shows father as William ROWELL, mother Isabella ROWELL (nee. CHARLTON). Hit! However, the father is listed as being a Hind, which seems a bit of a jump from being an Agricultural labourer. Anyway...she was born in 1845.

Looking again at the 1861 census for William and Isabella transcribed in reply #8, William's occupation looks like "farm hind".

[BumbleB]

Hind = Farm Labourer - A dictionary of old trades, titles and occupations.

[maddys52]

I'm not entirely sure why you are looking for a death certificate for Thomas or Joseph ROWELL. I appreciate that Mary Ann has said this is the father's name on Emily Adelaide's birth registration, however he doesn't appear on her baptism record (so far as I can tell - I haven't seen the image, just a transcription which only has mother as Mary Ann CHARLTON). Mary Ann says she is "unmarried" in 1871 not "widowed". The Joseph ROWELL, commercial traveller could be just a name to make the birth seem legitimate, or he could be a real person, but unfortunately we have no other details about him at this stage. He is not with Mary Ann in either 1861 or 1871, and I can't see any Joseph ROWELL, commercial traveller anywhere in either 1861 or 1871 anywhere in England. Of course he may have changed occupations.

Emily Adelaide did not know who her father was when she was married, which adds to my suspicion that her parents were certainly never married. Do you know if George Robert married? - I wonder who did he say his father was?