1871 England (Northumberland) Census - Isabel(la) Young

[Ruskie]

Prudhoe the town and Wylam are only 3 odd miles apart. Was the actual place of death in Prudhoe a private address or something like a workhouse where Isabella might have been receiving medical attention?

The address just says West Wylam, Prudhoe. The informant doesn't seem to be related though (Edward Oliver) so I don't know if it is some institution or not. His address is also given as West Wylam, Prudhoe.

Just to clarify:
Wylam and West Wylam are two different places.
Wylam is on the north side of the River Tyne.
West Wylam is on the south side of the Tyne and is now effectively part of Prudhoe.
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=15&lat=54.96279&lon=-1.84503&layers=6&right=ESRIWorld

Yes, I noticed that when I was looking at a map earlier. 

The address where the family were living in the 1871 census seems to have been on the north side of the river.

[kevinf2349]

Hello,

Many thanks to everyone. I am pretty convinced now that I have the correct DC. The ROWELLS are not direct line and so I am pretty reluctant to spend too much to obtain the certificates...but it is a pretty intriguing situation so I may research it a little further if only to unpick the spaghetti pile!

I am curious about Mary Ann CHARLTON who married Joseph ROWELL in 1857 (MC in hand) as it says she was "full age" however I have her as only being 16 and one of her children (Emily Adelaide) was born ROWELL in 1865 (BC in hand) but her son George Robert born in 1867 is shown as illegitimate (BC in hand) as CHARLTON. The only Joseph ROWELL deaths I can find are in 1869 (aged 59) or  1868 (aged 48). I am leaning towards the 1868 death because of the age and the fact that George Robert was born after this date. The death is registered in Tynemouth but that may be close enough to Wall to be still possible. I think I will order  the DC and see what it says.

Thnaks for all the pointers. I will close the request now.

Regards
Kevin

[maddys52]

I'm confused too ...

Emily Adelaide ROWELL birth registered Set qtr 1865 at Newcstle Upon Tyne mmn CHARLTON. I'm assuming this is her baptism:
18 Aug 1867  Emily Adelaide Rowell CHARLTON, mother - Mary Ann CHARLTON at Lee (I'm looking at the index only, not the image).

And in the 1871 census at Wall -
Robert CHARLTON     82    Hexham  (gardener)
Margaret                      83
Mary Ann                    30   (gr dau, unmarried)  Wall  (ag lab)
Emily Adelaide            5     (great gr dau)           Newcastle upon Tyne
George Robert            3     (great gr son)           Low Brunton

RG10/5151 pg11

(George Robert birth reg -  Dec qtr 1867 Hexham, no mmn. His baptism 13 Jan 1868 at Lee, mother - Mary Ann CHARLTON)

The only marriage I can see in 1857 for a Mary Ann CHARLTON is to Thomas ROWELL at Hexham. Is this the marriage cert you have?

[maddys52]

Also (again only looking at the index) on the marriage of Thomas ROWELL and Mary Ann - on 12 Dec 1857 at Saint Peter and Allenheads Chapelries,Allendale, it has the bride's name as Mary Ann CHARLTON or GRIFFITH. 

I think this family can be seen in 1871 at Escombe, Durham
Thomas ROWELL    40     Allenheads  (coal miner)
Mary Ann                  32    Wark
Ann Elizabeth           11     Allenheads
Emma                        9 
William                      7
Mary Ann                  1      Escombe
RG10/4926 pg38

(The children's birth registrations can be found with mmn CHARLTON)

[kevinf2349]

Maddy,

Many thanks. I have now order a handful of BC and DC's to try and make some sense of it. The MC shows Thomas as the spouse and he is a widower so that should cause even more confusion I am sure!. I have ordered a DC I found for Thomas (DEC 1860 Hexham 10B 176) mainly to see if this accounts for why Mary Ann ended up with her uncle. I wonder the family rumour mill speaks of some 'scandal' in this line of the family but I have yet to discover anything scandalous.

It is kind of intriguing as to why she is listed as 'unmarried' rather than 'widowed', hence why I ordered the DC.

Isn't genealogy fun?  ...expensive but fun

Thanks again.

Regards
Kevin

 

[maddys52]

So the marriage certificate you have is for Thomas, not Joseph as you said in reply #19. Is this the marriage on 12 Dec 1857? Who does Mary Ann say is her father?

I think that there are two different Mary Ann CHARLTONs - I have identified them in 1871, one with her grandfather Robert CHARLTON (and presumably children Emily Adelaide and George Robert) at Wall, Northumberland (almost next door is her Uncle John CHARLTON and family); and the other with husband Thomas ROWELL in Escombe, Durham.

In 1861 the unmarried Mary Ann CHARLTON is with her uncle John CHARLTON and family at Wall.
In 1851 she is again with her grandfather Robert CHARLTON at Wall.

Whereas the Mary Ann CHARLTON who married Thomas ROWELL is with husband Thomas and family in Allendale in 1861, and presumably with mother Ann CHARLTON at Wark in 1851.



You said you also have the birth certificates of Emily and George - which Mary Ann CHARLTON were you following?

Modified to add:
Note also that Thomas and Mary Ann ROWELL (nee CHARLTON) are in North Bedburn, Durham in 1881 and Evetham, Durham in 1891, and Bearpark, Durham in 1901. Then widowed Thomas is in Nevilles Cross, Durham in 1911.

[kevinf2349]

So the marriage certificate you have is for Thomas, not Joseph as you said in reply #19. Is this the marriage on 12 Dec 1857? Who does Mary Ann say is her father?

I think that there are two different Mary Ann CHARLTONs - I have identified them in 1871, one with her grandfather Robert CHARLTON (and presumably children Emily Adelaide and George Robert) at Wall, Northumberland (almost next door is her Uncle John CHARLTON and family); and the other with husband Thomas ROWELL in Escombe, Durham.

In 1861 the unmarried Mary Ann CHARLTON is with her uncle John CHARLTON and family at Wall.
In 1851 she is again with her grandfather Robert CHARLTON at Wall.

Whereas the Mary Ann CHARLTON who married Thomas ROWELL is with husband Thomas and family in Allendale in 1861, and presumably with mother Ann CHARLTON at Wark in 1851.



You said you also have the birth certificates of Emily and George - which Mary Ann CHARLTON were you following?

Modified to add:
Note also that Thomas and Mary Ann ROWELL (nee CHARLTON) are in North Bedburn, Durham in 1881 and Evetham, Durham in 1891, and Bearpark, Durham in 1901. Then widowed Thomas is in Nevilles Cross, Durham in 1911.

Maddy,

I said it was a confusing tangle!

Yes the MC is for Thomas ROWELL and Mary Ann CHARLTON. Interestingly her father is listed as William GRIFFITH on the marriage certificate. Thomas' father listed as  Matthew ROWELL

I am beginning to suspect that this Mary Ann CHARLTON isn't my Mary Ann

Here is my tangle as untangled (maybe) so far.

Mary Ann was born in 1841 to Isabella CHARLTON (no father listed on the BC)
Isabella CHARLTON married William ROWELL in 1842 (both fathers still living and both named Robert).
Isabella and William went on to have several kiddos but and died in 1872 (DC in hand). William is listed as her husband so I am pretty confident it is her (the age matches too)

So onto Mary Ann CHARLTON. What I know (or think I know) is the she birthed, at least, a daughter and a son.

Emily Adelaide ROWELL in 1865 (BC shows father as Joseph ROWELL). His occupation is listed as "Commercial Traveler".
George Robert CHARLTON in 1867 (BC shows no father)

Emily Adelaide CHARLTON had a girl in 1886 named?....you guessed it Mary Ann CHARLTON! (BC shows no father listed).
Emily Adelaide CHARLTON married James CARLYLE in 1891 (MC shows no father listed for Emily)

The Emily Adelaide ROWELL could be the red herring but I have been totally unable to locate a birth record for any other Emily Adelaide.

The only certainty I have is the Mary Ann CHARLTON/CARLYLE is correct. I am therefore reasonably sure that the MC for Emily Adelaide CHARLTON and James CARLYLE is correct. Before that....all bets are off. I am still trying to work through it all but time and money seem to be short!

Thanks for your assistance. Much appreciated.

Regards
Kevin

[maddys52]

Yes, I think the Emily Adelaide CHARLTON you have is likely the correct one, though there is the discrepancy between surnames on the birth registration and baptism.

I'm sure you have James CARLYLE and Emily Adelaide in the 1901 and Emily in the 1911 census.
1901 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XS93-ZXB
1911 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWMC-3X4

(and James in 1891 at Prudhoe)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:H3CV-J2M

I think then that Emily Adelaide's mother is Mary Ann CHARLTON (and whilst there is no father shown on her baptism, as the birth registration shows a Joseph ROWELL - according to the certificate you have - then he is a likely bet.  , whoever he is, yet to be found.)

Mary Ann CHARLTON (born c1841, Wall according to census records) appears to be the daughter of Isabella CHARLTON. Her baptism looks like this one at St John Lee on 11 July 1841, mother: Isabella CHARLTON of Wall, I haven't seen the image but FreeReg also notes father's occupation "servant".

Mary Ann and Isabella are in the 1841 census at Wall:
Robert CHARLTON     50  (nurseryman)
Margaret                      50
Isabella                       20
Robert                         20   (gardener)
John                            15   (gardener)
Mary                            1 month
HO107/842/31 pg4

Isabella's baptism - 23 Sep 1817 at St John Lee, parents Robert and Margaret.

[maddys52]

Of possible interest - there are many many mentions of Robert CHARLTON winning prizes for his flowers, some advertisements and a few articles in newspapers of the day over the years. This is a nice item from Saturday,  May 1, 1847, Newcastle Guardian and Tyne Mercury.

Oh, I can't attach an image in a lookup board. Here's a transcription:

"There is at present, in the collection of Robert Charlton, nurseryman, Wall, near Hexham, a Magnolia, in full bloom, with upwards of 200 flowers upon it, each flower measuring 4 1/2 inches in diameter. This species is quite hardy, having stood this and previous winters in the open ground, and without the slightest protection, and is very fragrant, scenting the whole village."