Trying to find records for parents C 1830.

[MonicaL]

What a brilliant likely connection you have made to Elizabeth Brown and George Bainbridge  Lots for you to follow up on with the leads provided by Helen.

Monica

[ruthhelen]

I do love it when the pieces of the jigsaw start to come together 

Has anyone managed to track down James Dewar Brown (b. 1809) and his daughter Isabella Harper Brown (b. 1836) after the 1861 sighting in Whitburn, West Lothian? There's no death records that I can see in Scotland for either of these two using their full names, and because the family seemed to move around so much, there are just too many possible candidates without using the middle names.

I did wonder if they perhaps went to Australia with Christina and her family, but if they did, they didn’t go with them on the Utopia - I’ve been through the Utopia manifest, and they don’t appear to be there. 

Ruth

[MonicaL]

Using mother's maiden name of Harper, doesn't bring up James' death between 1855-80

Does bring up a likely death entry for Elizabeth though:

ELIZABETH BROWN/BAINBRIDGE
Age 67
Mother's maiden name HARPER
1868
654/ 269
Rutherglen

Essnell, this registration would let you hopefully confirm Elizabeth's parents's names and the tie up to the Brown/Harper family we have been looking at.

Monica

Added: Sorry Ruth, you had noted this death already!

[Essnell]

Hi Ruth, Monica and everyone.

Re the C'sus info 1841, 1851, 1861,  I found all three.   1841 and 1861 correlate perfectly with same info. I actually found two for 1851
 One says that
James is still with Agnes, and
Daughter Jane (30) , Son James (24), Daughter Isabella (14)

The dates seem to fit but not where Isabella was born. Penpoint, Dumfries

They are at  Wie's Land, Bishopbriggs, Lanarkshire   ... they also have 3 lodgers

The other has just James Brown and Daughter Isabella 14yrs

Isabella's birth is Dunfirmlin, Fife.    place: West Nethertown, Dunf. Fife.
 this appears to be the more likely Record. 

So far no luck with 1871.

Re Elizabeth Brown and George Bainbridge.    I found the son's, Robert Bower Bainbridge,  Baptism record in the Old Parish registers for Dunfirmline  so that confirms that part .  No luck with a marriage record for his parents.  I wish!
The link to Andrew Brown is interesting . I think that this is the previous generation and where the Harper name came from.

Thanks again for all of this and the work you have done.

Essnell

[Essnell]

Hi all, just a bit more here :   

1.I got the death cert for Elizabeth Bainbridge and yes her mother's maiden name was on it, so a tie up between the families.
  Now the tree can be put together. Hurrah.

Thanks again Essnell

[Essnell]

Hi from Essnell,

I have a questions relating to a part of what was found on this thread.  Hope you can explain this for me. 

i have this part in question?  James Dewar Brown   born 1809  and married Agnes Beveridge in 1835. Their childeren are:
            Isabella Harper Brown born 1836,
            Christina Brown born 1839
            Elizabeth   no date.

Christina married Alexander McFadgan [Mc Fadyen] in 1859

They had two children James born 1859 and Anthony born 1861
they Immigrated to Australia in 1862   
ALL THIS IN IN THIS THREAD AND ALL CORRECT.

Now I have reason to believe that there was another child, William, born just before departure in 1862. I suspect he was left in Scotland as probably too young to take on the long voyage. 

I cannot find for myself a census record for him, in either country, nor a birth Record -  BUT he is noted in several An'stry family trees and one has a Census record for1871 and 1881 for said child with the correct parents.

Now I also have records of residence in Australia that say the father was resident in Australia in 1879,1880, 1881,1882, 1883, 1884 at a property in Central Queensland near the township of Blackall. It was a reasonably large property. I alaso have anote that Alexander was back in Scotland in 1891. 

So he returns every ten years and he is there in time for the census each time. Was this required for some reason?

Now these two census records,1871,1881 state that Alexander McFayden's occupation was"Annuitant".

Would this have been a type of pension? Would he have had to return periodically to Scotland to keep receiving this payment.
Where was William all this time he is 9yrs old on the 1871 and 19 on the 1881 document.  After that ... do not know?

Just after an explanation of the "Annuitant" and any information regarding receiving that.

Any ideas would be helpful.  i am quite suspicious of all this but I do have to check.

Kind regards All
Essnell

[Forfarian]

Now I have reason to believe that there was another child, William, born just before departure in 1862. I suspect he was left in Scotland as probably too young to take on the long voyage.

What reason? 

I cannot find for myself a census record for him, in either country, nor a birth Record -  BUT he is noted in several An'stry family trees

That means nothing. Never trust anything you find online, especially trees submitted to Anc*, unless it's an image of an original document. And even then be wary.

and one has a Census record for 1871 and 1881 for said child with the correct parents.

Where did these supposed censuses say he was? Does the online tree quote a source for them?

Now I also have records of residence in Australia that say the father was resident in Australia in 1879,1880, 1881,1882, 1883, 1884 at a property in Central Queensland near the township of Blackall. It was a reasonably large property. I alaso have anote that Alexander was back in Scotland in 1891. 
So he returns every ten years and he is there in time for the census each time. Was this required for some reason?

No. This suggests that there must have been another family with the same names.

Now these two census records,1871,1881 state that Alexander McFayden's occupation was"Annuitant".
Would this have been a type of pension?

Yes, but privately arranged.

Would he have had to return periodically to Scotland to keep receiving this payment.

Not unless the terms of the bequest or whatever set up the annuity required it, which is unlikely.

i am quite suspicious of all this but I do have to check.

Yes, spot on.

[Forfarian]

There's a McFadyen family in Edinburgh in 1871
Alexander McFadyen, coachman, 36, born Edinburgh
Christian McFadyen, wife, 39, born Glasgow
William McFadyen, son 9, born Edinburgh
John Brady, son, 19, born Bathgate

1n 1881, still in Edinburgh
Alexander McFadyen, 44, annuitant, born Edinburgh
Christina McFadyen, 50, born Glasgow
William McFadyen, 19, born Edinburgh

This couple is Alexander McFadyen and Christina Munro.

Christina Munro, wife of Alexander McFadzean, died in Edinburgh in 1881.

What this means is that (surprise, surprise - not) the Ancestry trees are wrong. The couple in the 1861 census in Edinburgh are not your Alexander and Christian, and William, born 24 August 1861 in Edinburgh, has nothing to do with your family, who were in Australia by 1871.

[Essnell]

Hi Forfarian
  Thank you so much for the quick and fantastic reply.   I thought as much from some of the data but it was not evident on the first two Census.

I  did find a couple of references myself very much earlier than this episode but I believe they are all relating to this other family.   So no William and no  visits periodicallyback to Scotland.
So many Alexander McFadyens - there are 3 consecutive Generations in this one family of mine.

Thank goodness!!
Another issue solved.

Kind regards
Essnell.