Author Topic: Trying to find records for parents C 1830.  (Read 5808 times)

Offline RonaArm

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Re: Trying to find records for parents C 1830.
« Reply #72 on: Sunday 12 June 22 23:08 BST (UK) »
Has anyone managed to track down James Dewar Brown (b. 1809) and his daughter Isabella Harper Brown (b. 1836) after the 1861 sighting in Whitburn, West Lothian? There's no death records that I can see in Scotland for either of these two using their full names, and because the family seemed to move around so much, there are just too many possible candidates without using the middle names.

I've got Isabella's information:

Isabella married James Moffat on 29 Jun 1863.  James and Isabella married at the Free Manse in Coatbridge after banns according to the forms of the Free Church.  Parents were listed as James Brown, Engine Keeper and Agnes Brown, deceased.  (no maiden name given)

James died 26 Dec 1899
Isabella died 14 Apr 1919.  On her death certificate, parents are listed as James Brown and Agnes Beveridge.

Children that I am aware of are:
Edward James Moffat (b. 1864) married Rachel ?
Agnes Moffat (b. 1866) married John Nisbit
Elizabeth Moffat (b. 1868) married Maurice Brady
Christina Moffat (b. 1872) married William Penman
Margaret Moffat (b. abt 1876) married Robert Beveridge  (I'd love to find out if Robert is a relative of Agnes Beveridge!)
Isabella Moffat (b. abt 1880) married Alexander Erskine

Regards
Werona






Offline Essnell

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Re: Trying to find records for parents C 1830.
« Reply #73 on: Monday 13 June 22 01:22 BST (UK) »
HI everyone,

Nice to see another update to this thread.

What I find interesting about this latest post is the Moffatt connection.
 Also:
Whether Robert is a relative of Agnes?  It  is a distinct possibility given the inter-relationships within this family. 
Werona, do you know anything about Agnes Beveridge born 1799?   Who are her parents and does she have any siblings that could be the parents or a link to Robert Beveridge.

I haven't gone that far sideways. It might be interesting to do so.
Cheers Essnell

Offline RonaArm

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Re: Trying to find records for parents C 1830.
« Reply #74 on: Monday 13 June 22 04:46 BST (UK) »
Hi Essnell,

I do not have an Agnes Beveridge born in 1799 on my tree - I have always stopped at Agnes born approximately 1816, as I have never been able to prove her parents.  How does Agnes (1799) fit in?

Today, I have been tracing Robert Beveridge (who married Margaret Moffet).

Robert's parents were William and Johan/Joan Burt (source:  marriage certificate and baptism)

William was born in 1846, son of John Beveridge & Helen Campbell (source:  marriage to Johan Burt)

John Beveridge & Helen Campbell married in Dunfermline on 22 Oct 1826.  They went on to have 10 children between 1828 and 1848.

John dies in 1849, aged 44.   Helen dies in 1870, aged 65.   

I have viewed the 1841 and 1851 census for this family.  They are always living at Wellwood Colliery, which is also their death locations.

John's marriage states that he is from Halbeath (a town which is considered a part of Dunfermline).

There are a few John Beveridge's born around that time in Dunfermline, so it's a little hard to tell which is the correct baptism.
However, if my theory is correct and there is a family relationship between Robert Beveridge (who married Margaret Moffat) and Agnes Beveridge (mother of Christina and Isabella Brown, and grandmother of Margaret Moffat) then following are possibly our Beveridge baptisms:

John:
Andrew Beveridge Coalhewer of Baldridge and Euphan Hynd his wife had a son born 12th of Nov baptized 24th named John; Witnesses David Beveridge and John Hynd Coalhewers there

Agnes:
Andrew Beveridge Coalhewer at Venturefair and Euphan Hynd his wife had a daughter born 10th March baptised 16 named Agnes; Witnesses Robert Beveridge and John Hynd Coalhewers

I'm not claiming these as mine, as I don't have enough data to back this up, however, I think, given the intermarriage that occurs, that they are worth keeping an eye on.


Offline Essnell

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Re: Trying to find records for parents C 1830.
« Reply #75 on: Monday 13 June 22 05:28 BST (UK) »
Hi RonaArm, 

I believe so.  But  have no idea how or why....!   

As I said, I haven't gone that far sideways.  I have had a look-see this morning after getting the alert for your post.
So I got Isabella's and James's marriage 1863 and the death certs for both her and James .With the death dates and the registration dates. 

Interestingly James has no parents on his death cert and his son Edward actually signed the document.  So apparently he didn't know either.  It says he was 68 so born C 1821. 

It's way past lunch time and I'm starving hungry.
 Might look at this further tonight.
Essnell.


 


Offline RonaArm

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Re: Trying to find records for parents C 1830.
« Reply #76 on: Monday 13 June 22 05:38 BST (UK) »
James and Isabella have a gravestone at Dunfermaline.  It reads: 

In loving memory of my husband James Moffat d. at Appin Crescent 26.12.1899 aged 69y native of Lockerbie. Also his widow Isabella Brown d. 14.4.1919 aged 80y. Ever to memory dear. Also their son-in-law Alexander Erskine d. 11.7.1954 aged 79y and his wife Isabella Moffat d. 11.9.1962 aged 82y

I haven't seen James' death certificate from 1899.  Only the marriage, which gives his parents as Edward Moffat and Elizabeth Wright.  I haven't looked very far into James' family.

Enjoy your lunch! 


Offline Essnell

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Re: Trying to find records for parents C 1830.
« Reply #77 on: Wednesday 15 June 22 02:44 BST (UK) »
Hi Everyone,

First:  Can someone tell me what Extent Rolls are Please. It's something to do with "Inheritance Ownership and Possession of, land."


Werona :  Can you tell me anything about Agnes Beveridge 1816  and where she is in your tree as I don't have her.  There are a number of ladies by that name.   So I want to do some checking.

  Now, I did find the Death Certs for both James Moffat and Isabella Harper [Brown] Moffat. Also the Marriage.   
As you have said the marriage was in 1863.
 The Cert gives the parish as Whitburn, so Isabella was still in Whitburn at that point.     

Now I didn't find a later Census easily.
I took one of the children you listed  Christina Moffat and I found her  living at Whitburn, Linithgowshire,  1891 with James her father, and siblings Edward, Margaret and Isabella.

They were at 80 Albany Street and Christina was a Cotton Weaver.  aged 19

Their mother is not listed on this record.  .....I wonder where she was?

But ...  I also believe there was a sibling  Henry.  He was a Private in the Army,  1st/4th Bn. East Yorkshire Regt.  He died in France aged 32 yrs  23rd March 1918.  Identified as Son of Isabella Moffatt and the Late James Moffatt.   

Therefore he was born C 1886.  Need a Birth Cert for him.  He is listed in the Commonwealth War Graves 1914-1921 and 1939-1947.

I still have to digest all that's in the previous post about Robert Beveridge. 

Essnell.

Offline RonaArm

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Re: Trying to find records for parents C 1830.
« Reply #78 on: Wednesday 15 June 22 03:41 BST (UK) »
Hi Essnell,

Agnes Beveridge that I referred to was the wife of James Dewar Brown, and mother to Christina Brown (who married Alexander McFadyen) and Isabella Harper Brown (who married James Moffatt).  I have estimated her birth as about 1816, based on her age in the 1841 census (25).  This, of course, has flexibility due to the rounding down of ages/inaccuracy of ages.

In regards to the census, I have the following:

Isabella was in Muiravonside, Stirlingshire, Scotland in 1891.  She is listed as Mother in Law, and is visiting Agnes - possibly for the birth/stillbirth of a child given that the youngest is 2 years of age in the census.  (The next is born about 1892 - which I why I thought maybe a stillbirth).

In 1901, she's back in Dunfermline at 50 Appin Crescent.  Isabella uses the name Maggie for some reason. I believe this is the correct person, based on the fact that Isabella Brady, granddaughter, is with her in 1901 and 1911. Also, the memorial inscription for James says he died at Appin Crescent.

In 1911, she is at 48 Baldridgeburn in Dunfermline.  Isabella Brady, aged 17, granddaughter, is living with her here.

Thanks for the heads up about Henry.  I'll have to look into him.  He's not with the family in 1891 or 1901.

Regards
Werona


Offline RonaArm

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Re: Trying to find records for parents C 1830.
« Reply #79 on: Wednesday 15 June 22 04:02 BST (UK) »
I don't think Henry, born 1886, is our family.

In the 1891 & 1901 census, there is a Henry Moffatt, son of James & Isabella Moffatt, in Newcastle upon Tyne, Northumberland who is a more likely candidate for this person. 


Offline Forfarian

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Re: Trying to find records for parents C 1830.
« Reply #80 on: Thursday 16 June 22 14:40 BST (UK) »
Can someone tell me what Extent Rolls are Please.
Are you sure it's Extent? Where did you come across a reference to them? Can you post an extract showing the reference?
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.