Author Topic: Trying to find records for parents C 1830.  (Read 5559 times)

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Trying to find records for parents C 1830.
« Reply #9 on: Monday 26 April 21 09:57 BST (UK) »
If Agnes was dead by 1859, she may have died before the start of civil registration in 1855, and if so her death record, if it exists, won't tell you who her parents were.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Fogmoose

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Re: Trying to find records for parents C 1830.
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 06 May 21 04:57 BST (UK) »
The recent release of the Kirk Session records has been quite a benefit to me, and it may be useful to you as well. It takes a bit of work, but the records are free to view and you may get lucky and find something useful. It's certainly a resource to keep in mind. Good luck!
Jaffray, Morrison - Monquhitter
Bird or Burd, Ironside - Methlick
Young - Aberdeen, Banffshire
Reid, Milne - Kincardineshire
Sanderson, Marshall, Marr - Foveran
Black, Ross - Rathven
Searle or Seale, Steel(e), Forbes, Adams- Aberdeen
Hutche(s)on, Keith, Greig, Fowlie - Cuminestown, New Deer, Monquhitter, Methlick

Offline Essnell

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Re: Trying to find records for parents C 1830.
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 06 May 21 11:08 BST (UK) »
HI Frogmoose,

Thank you for that information.  I'll try the Kirk Session records.  Something new comes up every day.

Regards Essnell

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Trying to find records for parents C 1830.
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 06 May 21 21:06 BST (UK) »
Has anyone been able to find the birth entries for James and Anthony I wonder? I am searching with wildcards, M*cf*n, and nothing showing on SP.

On Family Search I can see the birth of the unnamed girl www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQ4B-K78 and on SP her death shows in Holytown in 1860, mother maiden's name Brown.

Essnell, the dates you have are quite tight. Married in February 1859, had James that year. Got pregnant and had baby girl in March 1860 and then Anthony in 1861.

Could James have been born outside of the marriage? For example, www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F79Z-YLY

As for Anthony?

Would help to be able to find them in the 1861 census now that GR2 has confirmed ages and occupation for Alexander from the 1859 marriage register.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline ruthhelen

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Re: Trying to find records for parents C 1830.
« Reply #13 on: Friday 07 May 21 13:29 BST (UK) »
This is indeed a mystery - like you Monica, I can't find any birth records for James Clelland McFadyen or Anthony McFadyen - nor any conclusive evidence of Alexander McFadyen existing before he appears on the 1859 marriage record.

However, I have a somewhat radical theory, but to follow it through, we need to return to the parents of Christina Brown - James Dewar Brown and Agnes Beveridge...

James Dewar Brown married Agnes Beveridge in 1835 - the banns were called in Airdrie, Lanarkshire, and Newton, Midlothian. James was residing in Airdrie, and Agnes in Newton. This couple had a daughter - Isabella Harper Brown - baptised at the United Secession Church in Airdrie on 12 Feb 1837 (b. 24 Dec 1836) - both parents are named.

There is also a Christina Brown who was baptised at the United Presbyterian Church in Dalkeith, Midlothian on 11 Aug 1839 (b. 1 Jul 1839) - the entry simply reads: ‘daughter of Brown, Easthouses…’ so impossible to know if this is our Christina, although the age and location appear to potentially match. There are several Brown families in Easthouses in 1841 - all miners - but none of them are James, and none have a daughter Christina, although the child could, of course, have died in infancy.

As mentioned previously, this appears to be our Brown family in 1841 in New Monkland. Note that all the family, aside from Isabella, were born outside Lanarkshire.

1841 New Monkland, Lanarkshire
James Brown, 30, coal miner, Scotland
Agness Brown, 25, Scotland
Isabella Brown, 5, Lanarkshire
Christina Brown, 3, Scotland

James Dewar Brown appears again in the 1851 census in Old Cumnock, Ayrshire, as a widower, and with (apparently) another daughter named Elizabeth. So it looks likely that Agnes Beveridge died between 1841 and 1851.

1851 Old Cumnock, Ayrshire
James Dewar Brown, 40, widowed, coal miner, Edmonston, Midlothian
Elizabeth Brown, 14, daughter, Ruthin, Midlothian

Is 'Elizabeth' Christina? I can't find another obvious candidate for Christina in 1851, but neither do I have a positive sighting of Isabella (although there is an Isabella Brown of a suitable age and birth location working as a servant in Dunipace, Stirlingshire).

By 1861, James is in Whitburn, West Lothian, and Isabella is back with him:

1861 Whitburn, West Lothian
James Brown, 52, widowed, ironstone miner, Edmonston, Midlothian
Isabella Brown, 25, daughter, Airdrie, Lanarkshire
Alexander Cameron, 23, boarder, ironstone miner, Edmonstone, Midlothian
Christina Cameron, 23, boarder, Edmonstone, Midlothian
James Cameron, 3, Old Cumnock, Ayrshire

I’m intrigued by the ‘Cameron’ family who are lodging with James and daughter Isabella. They are the right age and occupation to be Alexander McFadyen, Christina Brown and their son James Clelland McFadyen - what intrigues me is that Cameron is the maiden name of Alexander McFadyen’s mother, according to his 1859 marriage.

I can’t find any record of a marriage between an Alexander Cameron and a Christina/Christian - nor was there a James Cameron born in Old Cumnock to an Alexander Cameron and Christina/Christian.

However, there is a James Brown Ferguson who was born in Old Cumnock in 1858, the illegitimate son of David Ferguson and Christina Brown. David Ferguson married Jane Burns, with whom he had six further children, about two weeks before his illegitimate son was born, but this child doesn’t appear with his family in any subsequent censuses - and he doesn’t appear to have died in infancy, as I can’t find a death registration.

So… my theory is that Christina Brown’s son James Brown Ferguson could be the child that became James Clelland McFadyen - and may also be the James Cameron who appears in the 1861 census in Whitburn. Clearly I have no conclusive evidence to prove this - but neither can I find any conclusive evidence to disprove it….  ???

Ruth
McArthur, Milne, Mitchell, Black, Robertson, Morrison, Slessor, Lawrence - Aberdeenshire/Banffshire. Muir, Waddell, Fraser, Orr, Cowden - Lanarkshire/Renfrewshire/Dunbartonshire. Dalziel, Dalzell, Gourley, Cromie, Crombie, Bell - Co Down. Haymon, Baker, Corke, Cooley, Ginger - Kent/London.

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Trying to find records for parents C 1830.
« Reply #14 on: Friday 07 May 21 15:08 BST (UK) »
Ruth, you have worked hard on this, trying to unravel  ;)

I see where you are with this though. Re Alexander, there are a couple of possibilities for a father called Samuel McFadgen (and variants) on the 1841 census. They both look to be single, one a miner and the other a farm labourer. Thinking of Alexander maybe being illegitimate, I saw this entry in Midlothian for mother and son? Both showing as born in the county. A/try have entry as Camann, edited to Cameron:

Elizabeth Cameron 29 Hat trim
Alexander Cameron 4

Address: Bailie Fyfes Close, Edinburgh Trinity College

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Trying to find records for parents C 1830.
« Reply #15 on: Friday 07 May 21 15:10 BST (UK) »
Just going by names and location, I saw this yesterday and wondered how and if it connects with this family group www.scottishindexes.com/courtentry.aspx?courtid=35001011

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Trying to find records for parents C 1830.
« Reply #16 on: Friday 07 May 21 15:13 BST (UK) »
Ruth, with your mention of the middle name Harper for first born daughter Isabella...

Came across this earlier which I now think may be James Dewar Brown's family https://ancestors.familysearch.org/en/93WN-XFK/andrew-brown-1804-1864 Potentially father also James Dewar Brown and mother Isabella Harper?

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Fogmoose

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Re: Trying to find records for parents C 1830.
« Reply #17 on: Friday 07 May 21 15:50 BST (UK) »
Ruth is pretty darn good with her theories, so don't discount that idea...see the last page of this thread where she was proved to be correct!

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=764025.msg6205322#msg6205322

A look through the Kirk Session records might provide some help....

Good work everyone on this!
Jaffray, Morrison - Monquhitter
Bird or Burd, Ironside - Methlick
Young - Aberdeen, Banffshire
Reid, Milne - Kincardineshire
Sanderson, Marshall, Marr - Foveran
Black, Ross - Rathven
Searle or Seale, Steel(e), Forbes, Adams- Aberdeen
Hutche(s)on, Keith, Greig, Fowlie - Cuminestown, New Deer, Monquhitter, Methlick