Author Topic: Died at Sea - or did he?  (Read 449 times)

Offline Winterbloom21

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Died at Sea - or did he?
« on: Monday 26 April 21 20:23 BST (UK) »
I've got a weird one here that I've been trying to solve for years and years.    I'm wondering whether anyone on the boards here might have any theories on it.

The circumstances are as follows:    My great grandmother emigrated to London, England from  Cork, Ireland in the early 1880s.     She travelled with her husband and young child.    On the journey, her husband slipped and fell, hit his head and died.

I have been told that he is buried in Plymouth.   My grandmother and aunt said they had once visited the grave, but could not remember where it was.     I have checked every cemetery I can find in Plymouth, but there is no record of him.    Also, there is no record of his death either at sea or in England.   (Name Patrick Collins, born Cork c 1852).

My great grandmother settled in London, remarried, and life went on.    But what on earth happened on that journey?    Was Plymouth a regular stopping point for ships travelling between Cork and London?     Did she get off the boat with his body, find accommodation somewhere, organise the funeral, bury him and then carry on to London?

It all sounds so very odd.    I'm wondering if anyone else has ever heard of a similar occurrence?    All theories gratefully accepted.
Toomebridge, County Antrim: Devlin
Toomebridge and Cavan:  McCormick
Glasgow, Wolverhampton, Shropshire:   Hill
Lurgan Co. Armagh:  Malone, Dumigan, McCourt, McGill
St. Pancras, and Poplar, London: Serjeant, Heald
Brookborough Co. Fermanagh:  Carmichael, Tierney
Staffordshire:  Cook
Isle of Wight:   Parkman
Warwickshire:  Kinchin
Cork: Kennedy, Ahern, Deliere

A British Islander, born Dublin of Irish/Anglo roots. Ancestors have crossed and recrossed the Irish sea in every generation.

Offline Mckha489

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Re: Died at Sea - or did he?
« Reply #1 on: Monday 26 April 21 20:35 BST (UK) »
Quote
Was Plymouth a regular stopping point for ships travelling between Cork and London?

This article from 1880.  No one killed, a lady fractured her leg.  But shows it was a regular service.

Side tracked to a friend’s very interesting Norfolk families. MORGAN, PRATT, HORNOR, SUCKLING

Offline Milliepede

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Re: Died at Sea - or did he?
« Reply #2 on: Monday 26 April 21 22:46 BST (UK) »
You don't think it was just a story do you  :-\ 

Assuming she remarried as a widow - in what year? 

What were his wife and young childs names please?

Just thinking about other newspaper reports.
Hinchliffe - Huddersfield Wiltshire
Burroughs - Arlingham Glos
Pick - Frocester Glos


Offline Milliepede

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Re: Died at Sea - or did he?
« Reply #3 on: Monday 26 April 21 22:56 BST (UK) »
There's a Patrick Collins death 5 Jun 1882 "falling overboard" but doesn't say how old he was.  Ship name "Garonne" from the births, marriages, deaths at sea register. 
Hinchliffe - Huddersfield Wiltshire
Burroughs - Arlingham Glos
Pick - Frocester Glos

Offline Sandblown

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Re: Died at Sea - or did he?
« Reply #4 on: Monday 26 April 21 23:35 BST (UK) »
There's a Patrick Collins death 5 Jun 1882 "falling overboard" but doesn't say how old he was.  Ship name "Garonne" from the births, marriages, deaths at sea register.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/11544794

The above Link details Patrick Collins suicide from the S.S. Garonne. The Ship did stop off at Plymouth, via London, on its final destination to Sydney, Australia.

Offline Winterbloom21

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Re: Died at Sea - or did he?
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 27 April 21 08:10 BST (UK) »
I did find the information about the Patrick Collins who committed suicide, thanks, and have held it 'in reserve' for some time!     As you say, Millipede, I did wonder if it was a 'story' and if Patrick had simply run away and subsequently went to Australia etc.

However, there is just that nagging doubt.  Why would two separate members of my family, long long after the event, tell me that he was buried in Plymouth, if it wasn't true?     I was just a kid when they told me.   And it wasn't so much that they had told me (as you say, it could have been a 'story' handed down by the mother) but the fact that they had visited the grave.   My aunt used to live in Plymouth at one stage so that would have been the opportunity.

The reason this has come up again is because only yesterday I was told by a cousin that her mother had told her something that I had never been told before ie that he had died on an accident on board ship 'when they were on their way to England.'       At last, I thought, a logical reason why a man who lived in Cork should have been buried in Plymouth!

But, how would they have dealt with it, I wonder?     Would they possibly have unloaded him and kept him in a mortuary somewhere while she continued her journey to London and then travelled back to bury him later?

My great grandmother's name was Margaret Collins nee Kennedy, born in Cork in 1856.    They married in Cobh in 1879 and their child, Cornelius, was born in 1880/1.
Toomebridge, County Antrim: Devlin
Toomebridge and Cavan:  McCormick
Glasgow, Wolverhampton, Shropshire:   Hill
Lurgan Co. Armagh:  Malone, Dumigan, McCourt, McGill
St. Pancras, and Poplar, London: Serjeant, Heald
Brookborough Co. Fermanagh:  Carmichael, Tierney
Staffordshire:  Cook
Isle of Wight:   Parkman
Warwickshire:  Kinchin
Cork: Kennedy, Ahern, Deliere

A British Islander, born Dublin of Irish/Anglo roots. Ancestors have crossed and recrossed the Irish sea in every generation.

Offline Winterbloom21

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Re: Died at Sea - or did he?
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 27 April 21 08:19 BST (UK) »
Sorry Millipede, I didn't answer your other question.    She remarried in London in 1887.  I have the certificate.
Toomebridge, County Antrim: Devlin
Toomebridge and Cavan:  McCormick
Glasgow, Wolverhampton, Shropshire:   Hill
Lurgan Co. Armagh:  Malone, Dumigan, McCourt, McGill
St. Pancras, and Poplar, London: Serjeant, Heald
Brookborough Co. Fermanagh:  Carmichael, Tierney
Staffordshire:  Cook
Isle of Wight:   Parkman
Warwickshire:  Kinchin
Cork: Kennedy, Ahern, Deliere

A British Islander, born Dublin of Irish/Anglo roots. Ancestors have crossed and recrossed the Irish sea in every generation.

Offline Winterbloom21

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Re: Died at Sea - or did he?
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 27 April 21 08:21 BST (UK) »
And, PPS, just in case it is of any use, another element of this story is that they travelled on a coal boat, not a regular passenger steamer.      This, I believe was quite common practice in those days.    Cargo ships would go from England to Ireland loaded up with something - in this case, coal - and come back to England with passengers acting as ballast.      Needless to say, the facilities were less comfortable, but it was cheaper than the Cork Steamship Company.
Toomebridge, County Antrim: Devlin
Toomebridge and Cavan:  McCormick
Glasgow, Wolverhampton, Shropshire:   Hill
Lurgan Co. Armagh:  Malone, Dumigan, McCourt, McGill
St. Pancras, and Poplar, London: Serjeant, Heald
Brookborough Co. Fermanagh:  Carmichael, Tierney
Staffordshire:  Cook
Isle of Wight:   Parkman
Warwickshire:  Kinchin
Cork: Kennedy, Ahern, Deliere

A British Islander, born Dublin of Irish/Anglo roots. Ancestors have crossed and recrossed the Irish sea in every generation.

Offline Winterbloom21

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Re: Died at Sea - or did he?
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 27 April 21 08:45 BST (UK) »
Yet another PS, this time for Mckha489!    Thanks for that newspaper report.    I've just googled the SS Minna and found out that she was wrecked on her way from Liverpool to Copenhagen on 20th November 1889.    It's the same one as the article says that she had spent most of her career in the service of the Cork Steamship Company, but interestingly, on this occasion, she was carrying coke.    Glad to report that the crew were all rescued, but the SS Minna is on the bottom, apparently.
Toomebridge, County Antrim: Devlin
Toomebridge and Cavan:  McCormick
Glasgow, Wolverhampton, Shropshire:   Hill
Lurgan Co. Armagh:  Malone, Dumigan, McCourt, McGill
St. Pancras, and Poplar, London: Serjeant, Heald
Brookborough Co. Fermanagh:  Carmichael, Tierney
Staffordshire:  Cook
Isle of Wight:   Parkman
Warwickshire:  Kinchin
Cork: Kennedy, Ahern, Deliere

A British Islander, born Dublin of Irish/Anglo roots. Ancestors have crossed and recrossed the Irish sea in every generation.