Author Topic: GRO indexes  (Read 1367 times)

Offline m23to53

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GRO indexes
« on: Tuesday 27 April 21 12:15 BST (UK) »
Hi

Has anyone had problems with GRO indexes, printed and online ?

I am currently in correspondence with the GRO as I have a person who appears under one set of names in the printed version and another name in the online birth index, both entries having the same vol and page numbers. They tell me that they cannot tell me which is the correct registered birth name because it is confidential.

I now have another difference between the two - if you search for Minnie F(rances) Loring-Fox you get two results in 1942 in the printed version on the deaths index ! and only one in the online index. You also do not get the Minnie F L Fox death entry in the online version.


I cannot believe these are the only instances of differences between the two forms of the indexes, and does make me wonder which is the best one to use.

Regards
John

Offline rosie99

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Re: GRO indexes
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 27 April 21 12:38 BST (UK) »

I now have another difference between the two - if you search for Minnie F(rances) Loring-Fox you get two results in 1942 in the printed version on the deaths index ! and only one in the online index. You also do not get the Minnie F L Fox death entry in the online version.



From GRO website
LORING-FOX, MINNIE  FRANCES     61 
GRO Reference: 1942  June Quarter in PADDINGTON  Volume 01A  Page 23  Occasional Copy: A
 
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Offline groom

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Re: GRO indexes
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 27 April 21 12:39 BST (UK) »
The two deaths are in different quarters as well! One in June quarter of 1942 so a death between April and June and the other the December quarter 1942, so a death between October and December!

According to the 1939 register her birth was 23 Jul 1880.

On the GRO for her death it just gives the June quarter and says Occasional Copy A. Not recorded with the December one!

LORING-FOX, MINNIE  FRANCES     61 
GRO Reference: 1942  J Quarter in PADDINGTON  Volume 01A  Page 23  Occasional Copy: A

It was war time, so I wonder if she was killed in a bombing raid and presumed dead?
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Offline emeltom

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Re: GRO indexes
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 27 April 21 12:54 BST (UK) »
Occasional Copy A usually means that a change has been made to the original registration for whatever reason.
Smith Tiplady Boulton Branthwaite King Miller Woolfall Bretherton Archer and many more

Online Dundee

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Re: GRO indexes
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 27 April 21 13:10 BST (UK) »

I have a person who appears under one set of names in the printed version and another name in the online birth index, both entries having the same vol and page numbers. They tell me that they cannot tell me which is the correct registered birth name because it is confidential.

The criteria used when the older printed indexes were compiled is different to the criteria used in the newer indexes which have been compiled  and made available online by the GRO.  You really need to understand that the purpose of indexing is to create a finding aid and the people doing the old indexes tended to index entries several times if multiple surnames were recorded in the registration or if the names were in any way ambiguous.

Whoever told you the information is confidential is being ridiculous.  Just buy the certificates to see the information on them.

Debra  :)

Offline AntonyMMM

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Re: GRO indexes
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 27 April 21 14:11 BST (UK) »
The death entry in the Dec 1942 appears to be indexed (on FreeBMD) under three different names ...Minnie F L FOX, Minnie F LORING-FOX and Minnie F HILL, which will reflect that her name appears as such on the death entry (probably as "otherwise" or "also known as" or "formerly known as").

On the new GRO index, the DEC entry only appears as Minnie Frances HILL which suggests that is the first name that appears on the register entry.

My guess would be that the first entry, in the JUN quarter, only recorded her name as LORING-FOX, and for whatever reason it became important to get that changed. Rather than a correction it appears to have been done as a full re-registration.

The re-registration in Dec would have led to a note being added to the margin of the earlier JUN entry, which would have triggered the submission of an Occasional Copy of that one.

As already mentioned - different indexes are compiled using different rule sets and it is to be expected that the results will differ and it can actually be useful sometimes.

A mismatch between the printed index (as used by FreeBMD), and that in the GRO on-line index will very rarely be an error, just a reflection of the different rules being used.

But there are always other explanations possible - so to be certain, you would need to order a copy of a certificate from each entry and compare them.

Offline groom

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Re: GRO indexes
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 27 April 21 16:05 BST (UK) »
Quote
Whoever told you the information is confidential is being ridiculous.  Just buy the certificates to see the information on them.

I expect hat's what they meant they couldn't tell m23to53 that information, they had to buy the certificate! If they told people information over the phone, a lot of people wouldn't bother to buy the certificate.
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Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: GRO indexes
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 28 April 21 07:13 BST (UK) »
Hi

Has anyone had problems with GRO indexes, printed and online ?

I am currently in correspondence with the GRO as I have a person who appears under one set of names in the printed version and another name in the online birth index, both entries having the same vol and page numbers. They tell me that they cannot tell me which is the correct registered birth name because it is confidential.

I now have another difference between the two - if you search for Minnie F(rances) Loring-Fox you get two results in 1942 in the printed version on the deaths index ! and only one in the online index. You also do not get the Minnie F L Fox death entry in the online version.


I cannot believe these are the only instances of differences between the two forms of the indexes, and does make me wonder which is the best one to use.

Regards
John


The reason they won't tell you (note won't, not cannot) is because they want you to buy the certificates.

This all started many many years ago when solicitors clerks used to visit the Superintendent Registrars offices and copied entries in the registers instead of purchasing certificates, this was unlawfully stopped by the Registrar General who prevented the  Superintendent Registrars allowing access to registers without there being a change in the law.
Cheers
Guy
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Offline m23to53

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Re: GRO indexes
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 01 May 21 12:09 BST (UK) »
Luckily there are only 4 Minnie Frances registered in the apparently right quarter of 1880, two of whom died young. There appears to be marriages for the other two, but no names of grooms matching the names of Minnie Frances who died 1942.
Another thing is the Fox connection. A 1936 electoral roll has her sharing the address with her daughter Elizabeth Ann Loring, journalist and dietician who is also something of a mystery, and a Charles K Fox. While on the 1939 she shares an address with her daughter and a Christopher D Fox, apparently born 1889. Have so far been unable to trace either Fox further as well as  the mother and daughter.  I assume the truth is out there if I knew where to look. I have assumed her origins were in England, but they may not be.