Help deciphering 17th century signature

[Niall321]

Hello - I wonder if anyone help with this signature? It is on a 17th century drawing. I believe it is either old English or Dutch/Flemish. I'm going round and round in circles, not getting anywhere. Help would be greatly appreciated!

[Karen McDonald]

Hello Niall,

Would it be possible to see a slightly larger snippet, as there are words to the left and to the right of the actual signature. (Looks like My God! on the left, but that's probably my eyesight...  )

Also, perhaps a small photo of the entire painting, to give us an idea of the style.

Many thanks,
Karen

[Niall321]

Hello Karen - I've added a photo of the whole drawing.

There are inscriptions lower left and right implying the drawing is of William the First of Orange ("my God, my God what have I done...), but I am pretty sure these were added later, in ink, in a different script to the signature (I presume) lower centre. I am fairly sure the paper is 17th century, so probably nor an actual life drawing of William of Orange?!

There is also a coat of arms in ink on the back, but I presume this is unrelated and probably added later (and labelled "Dod of Broxton").

I have reached my 900mb upload limit so unfortunately can't add more photos .

I am very interested to hear if you can shed any light on this. Thanks, Niall

[Ruskie]

I think you might need one of the art experts from Antiques Roadshow to help you with that Niall. 

I agree that the script looks quite modern and may not be contemporary with the drawing, unless the drawing is not as old as it seems. Because the image depicts a man wearing period garb doesn't mean it was drawn then. I also wonder why anyone would add that script years later?

You say you think that the paper is C17th? I don't know anything about paper but it looks to be in very good condition. It might be worth getting someone to date it for you, or at least give you a second opinion.

It's very lovely though and very well executed.

Added: If you would like to find out more about the coat of arms in case it is of relevance, there are several people who might be able to help you identify it. It might be best to start a new thread and attach a link to this thread to give some background.

[horselydown86]

It may be fanciful, but among the flourishes I can make out, in English and written in a 16^th or 17^th century style; the words:

[hell? / held?] are to [?]

[Niall321]

Fanciful is always worth a try. Do you have any (links to) examples of those 16/17th century scripts that I could look at? Thanks

[horselydown86]

See the thread here:  https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=847330.0;PHPSESSID=bk87de99i13kq17mg1htnels27

In the neatly written lines at the centre of the image attached to this thread, see the fourth word in the second line.

This is hundreth.  Compare the two examples of h to the letter in the box on my attachment.

Then look at the last word of the first line.  This is that.

The a has an oblique decorative line running at about 45 degrees up and to the the right.

The arrow on my attachment points to a similar a.

In both cases the letters on the picture have other flourishes as well.

[Niall321]

Fascinating.

Now you've shown me, I can see the H quite clearly and have found other similar examples online. I wouldn't be surprised by additional flourishes, either as signature or as a title for the drawing.

I'll study the text in your link and see if I can garner any more letters as it seems in the same/similar. style