Author Topic: Norman name?  (Read 493 times)

Offline spendlove

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Re: Norman name?
« Reply #9 on: Friday 30 April 21 11:53 BST (UK) »
Hi,

Searching Google came across the following research on a number of families, including some on John Crowhurst who married Margaret IN Shernfold Park.  It comes with, what I consider, a warning that the information if from Ancestry.
https://www.ponting-family-history.org/vol-iii-appendix-d/

From what records have you obtained the name Margaret de Shenfold?

To discover land ownership you need to find which Manor Frentt and the land called SHERNFOLD  came under. Then see if the Manor Court Rolls have survived searching these for who was the Lord of the Manor and who the copy holders were.

My ancestors lived in Shottle Park, this was an ancient hunting park, and were of (de) Shottle Park however they did not own it.


Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Spendlove, Strutt in London & Middlesex.

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Norman name?
« Reply #10 on: Friday 30 April 21 14:22 BST (UK) »
Cowban

Offline Vance Mead

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Re: Norman name?
« Reply #11 on: Friday 30 April 21 18:14 BST (UK) »
Going back before John Crowhurst/Crowherst in Frant, here are some earlier Crowhersts in Teston, Kent, about 15 miles away, near Maidstone. I can't say if they are connected at all.

Will of John Crowherst of Teston / Barming, 1510
http://vulpeculox.net/history/kwills.htm
Teston and Barming are two adjacent parishes near Maidstone

Common Pleas, Hilary term 1514, Third to last entry:
Kent. John Maplysden, versus John Pokyll, of Thorneham, husbandman; Richard Manfeld, of Fryndysbery, husbandman; William Crowherst, of Teston, husbandman; John Smyth, of Borden, wheeler; Richard Kete, of Mepeham, husbandman. Debt.
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/H8/CP40no1005B/bCP40no1005Bdorses/IMG_0899.htm
Mead - Herts, Bucks, Essex
Pontifex - Bucks
Goldhurst - London, Middx, Herts
Kellogg/Kelhog - Essex, Cambs


Offline ThrelfallYorky

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Re: Norman name?
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 01 May 21 16:55 BST (UK) »
I found a couple of records with "de Threlfall" written in - and I wouldn't think there are many less French-linked families* than that! Often it was - especially in court records, down to whoever was writing it all up.
*Lancashire all the way through, apparently
Threlfall (Southport), Isherwood (lancs & Canada), Newbould + Topliss(Derby), Keating & Cummins (Ireland + lancs), Fisher, Strong& Casson (all Cumberland) & Downie & Bowie, Linlithgow area Scotland . Also interested in Leigh& Burrows,(Lancashire) Griffiths (Shropshire & lancs), Leaver (Lancs/Yorks) & Anderson(Cumberland and very elusive)

Offline venelow

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Re: Norman name?
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 02 May 21 01:33 BST (UK) »
Hi JD

As Yorky suggests the use of De + place name seems to be a common way to describe a person by naming where they lived in the time frame you are looking at. I have also seen this in connection with my own name which is an English place name and a very Anglo-Saxon one at that. After a time the De was dropped and the place name became a surname.

It appears that before the large house called Shernfold Park was built in the 19th Century there was a place called Shernfold within the parish of Frant. Maybe a hamlet or maybe just a farm.

I think you may find this book, which you can read online, of interest.

https://theweald.org/d10.asp?bookid=eeles999

Best wishes
Venelow

Offline markheal

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Re: Norman name?
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 02 May 21 03:46 BST (UK) »
"de" just means from, in either Latin or French, usually without any suggestion of Norman descent. The records from Common Pleas that I posted earlier are in Latin. John Crowherst, for example, was "de Frante".

Is there any general rule to merge 'De' with the place name or to stay separate 'de'

i also wonder wonder about the usage in my family from Chew Magna Somerset.  This John [below] was Church Warden and his handwritten notes in the records are quite pernickerty about the spelling of his family surname which of course vary and confuses!

JOHN At Heal or Atheal or Heall OR HEAL Church Warden at Chew Magna
16481710
BIRTH 18 JUL 1648 Ellbrough, Hutton, Somerset, England
DEATH 24 NOV 1710 Bishop Sutton, SEE NOTES Chew Magna
ANSTRUTHER,Worldwide
BENNETT,
BRETT, Sligo
CARNEGIE,
CROCKFORD, Hampshire.
ELLIOT,
GAUNTLETT, Worldwide
HEAL, HEALE, HELE, Chew Magna, Somerset
HENRY, Sligo
MABEY, Dorset
POPE, London docklands,
STANDERWICK, Somerset,
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk