Isabella Gilpin dob abt 1858 Armagh

[LAW1221]

Hi
I've posted this before and got some amazing information from the group.  I've hit another wall so thought I'd try again.  I strongly believe that my great grandmother, Isabella Gilpin, born around 1858 in Armagh (possibly Portadown) is the daughter of William Verner Gilpin.  I just cannot prove it since birth records are not available that early online.  I believe she is because on her death certificate (March 1915 in Connecticut, USA) her father is listed as Wm V. Gilpin.  Her obituary mentions a brother David and James, both the names of two of William Verner's sons.  I just want to have something more definitive if possible, otherwise I feel like I'm speculating.  I've tried twice to obtain her marriage certificate in the hopes it would list her father's name.  Using the NY Health Department index on Ancestry, I believe she was married in Queens to Thomas Wilson in 1891.  Both requests have turned up no records.  NY Health sent me to NYC and NYC sent me back to the NY Health Department!  I was hoping a marriage cert would have been my proof. 

So back to square one on trying to prove out that she is in fact a daughter of Wm Verner.  If anyone has her in your tree or access to any church records, I assume Methodist.  I'd appreciate your assistance.  Thank you,

Laura

[aghadowey]

I strongly believe that my great grandmother, Isabella Gilpin, born around 1858 in Armagh (possibly Portadown) is the daughter of William Verner Gilpin.  I just cannot prove it since birth records are not available that early online.

Civil registration of births didn't start until 1864 so there will be no birth certificate anywhere for Isabella.

For reference, here are links to earlier threads-
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=834894.9
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=776901.msg6306447#msg6306447
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=723407.msg5675195#msg5675195

[LAW1221]

Hi
Thank you for the response.  I was aware of the range for the civil records, that is why I am struggling at this point.  I was specifically asking if anyone had her in their tree or had access to any church records since the civil records are a dead end for me with this ancestor.  Thank you for the prior links (they are all responses to my earlier questions over the years that have lead to this point!)
Laura

[scotmum]

.  I just want to have something more definitive if possible, otherwise I feel like I'm speculating     

William Verner Gilpin appears on several Ancestry trees. If any of his descendants have undertaken DNA testing, and any of Isabella's descendants have also undertaken DNA testing, it may be possible to be more certain that the two were linked.

[LAW1221]

Thank you, great point!

[aghadowey]

I've tried twice to obtain her marriage certificate in the hopes it would list her father's name.  Using the NY Health Department index on Ancestry, I believe she was married in Queens to Thomas Wilson in 1891.  Both requests have turned up no records.  NY Health sent me to NYC and NYC sent me back to the NY Health Department!  I was hoping a marriage cert would have been my proof.

Can't see marriage under Wilson or Gilpin using Italian Genealogy databases-
https://www.italiangen.org/databases/

Marriage of Amanda Frances Wilson gives parents as Thomas Wilson & Isabella Gilpin-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K8NS-ZRL

[LAW1221]

Hi

Thank you!  Yes, Isabella married Thomas Wilson in the US, I believe around 1891.  From the marriage date on, I have the family history built.  It's the ancestry of Isabella (and Thomas for that matter) in Ireland is where I'm stuck.  There is an index entry in Ancestry which lists a marriage between Thomas Wilson and Isabella Gilpin on October 6, 1891 in NYC.  I wrote to the NY Health Department as it is listed as the source on Ancestry, they sent me to NY City municipal records, who in turn told me that they can't find the record - try the NY Health Department...going in circles!  Per the Ancestry listing the marriage was in Astoria Queens...it appears that NYC and the Italian database do not have records from Queens back to 1891, apparently.

I know that my best course of action is to probably re-activate my Ancestry account because I know from my Ancestry tree hints that there are other trees out there with this family.  Unfortunately, I cannot do that at the present time but hopefully in the future.

Thanks everyone.
Laura

[BallyaltikilliganG]

have you searched http://www.castlegarden.org/searcher.php before 1892
 I think this is her via https://www.statueofliberty.org/discover/passenger-ship-search/
NAME OF PASSENGER
Gilpin, Isabella
PLACE OF BIRTH
Ireland
YEAR OF ARRIVAL
1882
AGE AT ARRIVAL
23 so b~1859 more details, if you join
name of ship Anchoria was a steamship regular voyages Londonderry to NY direct see http://www.dippam.ac.uk/ied dissappointly the notes close off in 1879.

do any of the existing trees note the landlord
the local landlord was
Verner   Baronet William   Mullenakill, West   Killyman   Armagh
Verner   Baronet William   Derrycorry, South.   Killyman   Armagh
Verner   Baronet William   Derrycorry, South   Killyman   Armagh
Verner   Baronet William   Derrycorry, North   Killyman   Armagh
Verner   Baronet William   Clontyclay   Killyman   Armagh
Verner   Baronet William   Derryhirk   Killyman   Armagh
Verner   Baronet William   Derryhubbert, East   Killyman   Armagh
Verner   Baronet William   Mullenakill, South   Killyman   Armagh
Verner   Baronet William   Mullenakill, North   Killyman   Armagh
Verner   Baronet William   Derryhubbert, South   Killyman   Armagh
Verner   Baronet William   Derryhubbert, North   Killyman   Armagh
Verner   Baronet William   Copney   Clonfeacle   Armagh
 has anyone checked surviving  Methodist records for her
good luck onwards

[LAW1221]

Thank you!  I'll check this out.  I haven't been able to find anyone yet that can check the Methodist records for her.  She was clearly born prior to the civil registrations, thus my struggle with verifying her as William Verner's daughter. 

Thank you again for your help.
Laura