Is anyone digitizing Prerogative Court of Canterbury PCC administrations?

[melba_schmelba]

I think I remember someone hinting a couple of years back that one of the genealogy websites was going to digitize PCC administrations, but I haven't seen any sign of it, I would be interested if anyone has anyone knowledge that these might become available. I think an index is available from 1701-49 at the National Archives (also at LDS FHLs, SOG), and possibly one 1750-1800 card index at the Society of Genealogists. There are also abstracts made for various decades of the 17th century and some for certain counties or countries i.e. America, but I think that's as good as it gets at the moment.
  Often they aren't incredibly helpful genealogically, as the usual thing is an administration to a widow, but bondsman's names can be useful, and sometimes there are extra things available such as legal documents relating to guardianship of minors, wills that have been annexed etc. Also if the person has no spouse, it can help to confirm previously uncertain or reveal completely unknown relationships as the next of kin is found.

[melba_schmelba]

I suppose the lack of response probably reflects the fact most people have no idea these even exist! The 17th century indexes that are on Ancestry that cover 1649-1660 were published in the 1940s by the British Record Society so still in copyright, as in this link

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Genealogical_Research_in_England_s_Publi/GJV_HG5U3eEC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=prerogative+administrations+1649+1655&pg=PA133&printsec=frontcover

the digitized books can be searched here

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/28564/

Interesting reference to PCC inventories 1734-1782 published by the List and Index Society in 1973, I can't say I realized that these existed - are they even listed on the National Archives catalogue I wonder? There was a Volume I which covers 1702 & 1718-33, both now out of print, but presumably available in the National Archives

http://www.listandindexsociety.org.uk/allpubs.html

also a publication "Prerogative Court of Canterbury: Paper Inventories 1661-c.1725" not sure if these are associated with wills or something else

[Gadget]

I assume you've seen this listing:

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/england-and-wales-published-wills-and-probate-indexes-1300-1858-volumes-available/prerogative-court-of-canterbury

Most of mine are York

[melba_schmelba]

I assume you've seen this listing:

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/england-and-wales-published-wills-and-probate-indexes-1300-1858-volumes-available/prerogative-court-of-canterbury

Most of mine are York

Thanks Gadget, no I hadn't seen that. I see there are many other volumes from the 16th and 17th century not on Ancestry. Re: the PCC inventories, they do seem to be indexed on the National Archives (the PCC administrations as far as I know are not)

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C12113 pre 1661

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C12116 most post 1661

[melba_schmelba]

More inventories

Prerogative Court of Canterbury: Filed Engrossed Eighteenth Century Inventories and Associated Documents

PROB 3
1701-1782

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C12114

Prerogative Court of Canterbury and Other Probate Jurisdictions: Engrossed Inventories Exhibited from 1660

PROB 4
1660-c1720

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C12115

I think these are the pages for the PCC administrations, but they are not indexed by name (only searchable by date range)

Act Books
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C12117
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C12118

Calendars
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C12123
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C12124
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C12126

Prerogative Court of Canterbury: Administration Bonds from 1601 to 1713 (PROB 54) including where the will was annexed
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C12165

Prerogative Court of Canterbury: Files and Bundles of Administration Bonds from 1714 (PROB 46) including where the will was annexed
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C12157

Limited Probate Act Books where the wills was annexed (PROB 9)
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C12120

files of commissions which were issued by the Prerogative Court of Canterbury to authorise local officials to administer the oaths of executors who were unable to visit the Court in London (PROB 52)
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C12163

[Bookbox]

I suppose the lack of response probably reflects the fact most people have no idea these even exist!

A rather sweeping assumption? I didn’t reply to your original post because I have no up-to-date information on the digitisation of PCC administrations, which is what you were asking about.

Unless you’re familiar with using the PROB 6 records in person at TNA, you may not appreciate the size of the collection or of the indexes to it in PROB 12, and what a huge task this will be (far bigger than digitising the wills). Many of the records are as yet unindexed, but at the same time there are several calendars and piecemeal indexes – published, typescript and manuscript -- covering different periods, which would need to be coordinated during any digitisation project of the collection.

The last I heard (probably about 2018, so not up-to-date) was that the BRS was in negotiation with an online provider to digitise PROB 6 from 1650 to 1700, mainly because the records for that period have already been calendared in card-index form. For more up-to-date information your best bet would probably be to contact probate.editor AT britishrecordsociety.org.

[melba_schmelba]

I suppose the lack of response probably reflects the fact most people have no idea these even exist!

A rather sweeping assumption? I didn’t reply to your original post because I have no up-to-date information on the digitisation of PCC administrations, which is what you were asking about.

Apologies Bookbox, I simply meant the average family tree hobbyist will not know they exist since they are not online.

Unless you’re familiar with using the PROB 6 records in person at TNA, you may not appreciate the size of the collection or of the indexes to it in PROB 12, and what a huge task this will be (far bigger than digitising the wills). Many of the records are as yet unindexed, but at the same time there are several calendars and piecemeal indexes – published, typescript and manuscript -- covering different periods, which would need to be coordinated during any digitisation project of the collection.

The last I heard (probably about 2018, so not up-to-date) was that the BRS was in negotiation with an online provider to digitise PROB 6 from 1650 to 1700, mainly because the records for that period have already been calendared in card-index form. For more up-to-date information your best bet would probably be to contact probate.editor AT britishrecordsociety.org.

Thanks for your knowledge on this Bookbox, it is appreciated . I did not know that the number of the administrations vastly outstrips the numbers of wills, but that does make sense. I look forward to the release of the first tranche of 17th century admons. I see that the Society of Genealogists has put their 1750-1800 index online for members (non members can search to see if a name is there)

https://www.sog.org.uk/search-records/search-sog-data-online/

[melba_schmelba]

https://www.sog.org.uk/search-records/search-sog-data-online/

I was interested to notice that if you do a search on the Society of Genealogists indexes for various common names Smith, Clark, Brown, Jones, etc., the number of Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills 1750-1800 is nearly always significantly higher than the number of Administrations in the same court in the same period, whereas I was expecting there to be many more administrations than wills, but it appears that may not be the case, i.e.:

Smith and variants PCC administrations 1750-1800: 1548
Smith and variants PCC wills 1750-1800: 2690

Clark and variants PCC administrations 1750-1800: 724
Clark and variants PCC wills 1750-1800: 1248

Brown and variants PCC administrations 1750-1800: 1149
Brown and variants PCC wills 1750-1800: 1742

Jones and variants PCC administrations 1750-1800: 1028
Jones and variants PCC wills 1750-1800: 1623

Williams and variants PCC administrations 1750-1800: 760
Williams and variants PCC wills 1750-1800: 1058

Wilson and variants PCC administrations 1750-1800: 489
Wilson and variants PCC wills 1750-1800: 712

Johnson and variants PCC administrations 1750-1800: 435
Johnson and variants PCC wills 1750-1800: 728

Davies and variants PCC administrations 1750-1800: 744
Davies and variants PCC wills 1750-1800: 1134

Robinson and variants PCC administrations 1750-1800: 436
Robinson and variants PCC wills 1750-1800: 555

Wright and variants PCC administrations 1750-1800: 380
Wright and variants PCC wills 1750-1800: 657

Thompson and variants PCC administrations 1750-1800: 390
Thompson and variants PCC wills 1750-1800: 499

Walker and variants PCC administrations 1750-1800: 345
Walker and variants PCC wills 1750-1800: 491

Hill and variants PCC administrations 1750-1800: 922
Hill and variants PCC wills 1750-1800: 1653

The only outlier seems to be Taylor, I wonder why


Taylor and variants PCC administrations 1750-1800: 766
Taylor and variants PCC wills 1750-1800: 216


hmm if I specify Taylor exact match, then the amounts are 664 for administrations and 0 for wills

then if I search the National Archives for Taylor it gives 929 PCC wills from 1750-1800
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_fn=&_ln=taylor&_occ=&_pl=&_q=&_sd=1750&_ed=1800&discoveryCustomSearch=true&_cr1=PROB+11&_col=200&_hb=tna

[jonw65]

The Administration Act Books have been filmed by the LDS
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/296752

Probate Act Books
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/237529

Possibly the indexes at the start here are the Calendars?
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/295797

Why do TNA not allow these records to be seen at home on FS?
Or why do ancestry not digitize the films of the Act Books and Calendars? I don't recall seeing act books or calendars in any of the probate collections they have on their site, they don't seem to be interested.