Mary BELL/ Mary HAND

[majm]

 

Clan,

From your opening post

................ Mary BELL who died at New Norfolk, Tasmania in 1905 ..............

I cannot find any death for a Mary BELL in Tasmania in 1905.  Where did you find that a Mary BELL died at New Norfolk, Tasmania in 1905.

JM   

[majm]

What happened to the twin sister of Mary HAND?  I see five sisters arriving 30 October 1854 per the Mooltan into Hobart.  They were from Monaghan.    Also onboard were James Hand (43) and Bridget Hand (42) with 3 boys and 1 girl under 14.   So the five girls were aged 15 to 20, and were :
Ann/e aged 20; Letitia aged 18,  Mary aged 18 (noted as twins on one of the lists); Kate aged 17,  and Helen aged 15.  Mary, like her sisters, was recorded as a general servant.  She was hired by W.A. JARVEY, Murray St £12 for 6 months, with rations.

There is a current thread on the NZ board re a W.A. Jarvey, perhaps the same chap.  It has confronting details in it.  https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=847744.0  The focus is seeking to find the children of that chap.

JM

 

[majm]

Attaching a snip .... SCRIBBLE by the clerk preparing the passenger lists for arrivals to Hobart ... I think it may say (top left) Father on board or similar.   I read that Ann did not have Read or Write skills, but Letitia could read.  Mary could not Read or Write, but Catherine could read.  Helen could not Read or Write.   I am confident that Mary and Letitia were bracketed as twins.

I can clearly read the following arrivals per that same vessel/voyage
HAND:
James 43,  Bridget 42, Bridget 10, Peter 8,  Michael 6,  James 12.

I see NO mention of BELL associated with that family at that time. 


JM

[majm]

https://stors.tas.gov.au/HSD285-1-1107

Mary HAND, admitted to asylum in 1878 from Hobart Gaol.  Died June 1905 at New Norfolk  Hospital.

Likely you already have the following re Thomas Liddington Senior and Mary Hand.
The Mercury 9 May 1878, Police Court https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/8962994

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/47786239  Launceston Examiner 16 May 1878
At the Supreme Court ... Mary Hand, charged with wounding with intent to murder ... was acquitted on the ground of insanity ... detained in gaol during her Majesty's pleasure.

JM

Mary Hand, aged 50, free to colony on the Moolton
https://stors.tas.gov.au/CON42-1-1$init=CON42-1-1P99

M

Yes exactly so.   That's a great find M, it gives Mary HAND's ship of arrival in the Remarks section.  It is the May1878 Gaol record, and gives her then age as 50. 

  If that 50 is accurate, then how likely is it that Mary HAND was birth mother to any of those children I listed as born in the 1870s?
  Does that then suggest that Mary HAND never married?
  Does that also suggest that Mary BELL was not Mary HAND?  - afterall Thomas LIDDINGTON's testamony as reported in the newspaper says he was NOT married to Mary HAND.   No mention of Mary BELL in the newspaper cutting I listed earlier.

JM 

[clancam37]

Sorry MAJM it was Mary HAND who died in 1905 see attached.
This from the Tasmanian Archives, Hobart.
Will follow up this NZ lead, thanks for this.
Kind regards
clancam37

Clan,

From your opening post

................ Mary BELL who died at New Norfolk, Tasmania in 1905 ..............

I cannot find any death for a Mary BELL in Tasmania in 1905.  Where did you find that a Mary BELL died at New Norfolk, Tasmania in 1905.

JM

[majm]

   Thanks Clan, it was a confuddlement. 

Fingers crossed - I wonder if you have considered who the informants were on those births ... who would have given them Mary LIDDINGTON formerly BELL as mother...   The newspaper cutting includes commentary/witness statement that the children were to go to the Orphanage.   I well understand that Orphanages in that era were not just for those children whose parent/s were deceased, but rather were for any children who were impoverished or neglected.  Mary HAND arrived without literacy skills, aged 18, in 1854 ... unlikely to have been given opportunity to acquire any as an adult, until perhaps incarcerated. 

JM     

[clancam37]

Am working through your replies and NZ content.  Thanks very much for this.
It is a puzzle.  Where Mary BELL may fit is a puzzle as well.
For example the attached criminal record showed Joseph LIDDINGTON claimed he was also known as HAND & FALK although his birth record clearly shows his Parents names. Have just this week found his (Joseph)  Death details.  It was him, as he gave a Thomas Liddington of Tasmania as his Brother.
I may be a little thick -- can you help re the Jarvey angle?
Kind regards
clancam37

My aim is to establish the correct descendants of of an exiting Ancestor of Thomas LIDDINGTON Jr and Mary ?.

  Thanks Clan, it was a confuddlement. 

Fingers crossed - I wonder if you have considered who the informants were on those births ... who would have given them Mary LIDDINGTON formerly BELL as mother...   The newspaper cutting includes commentary/witness statement that the children were to go to the Orphanage.   I well understand that Orphanages in that era were not just for those children whose parent/s were deceased, but rather were for any children who were impoverished or neglected.  Mary HAND arrived without literacy skills, aged 18, in 1854 ... unlikely to have been given opportunity to acquire any as an adult, until perhaps incarcerated. 

JM     

[majm]

The NZ thread is about what happened to the children of W A JARVEY ... they seem to have been abandoned in NZ after he had murdered their mum in NZ.  Their eldest sister (born Tas) returned to Tas and was a school teacher in the late 1860s ...  I wondered it that W A Jarvey was the same chap who hired Mary HAND in the 1850s ... 

From the Tas Reports of Crime 1869 page 103.

Prisoners discharged from HM Gaols and House of Correction, Hobart Town and Launceston, during the week ending 23 June …..

Mary BELL, per the London 1, tried Hobart 25 March 1869,  Prostitution, sentenced 3 months,  Native place as Tasmania,  aged 19, 5 ft 4 ½ in tall, Light brown hair, Remarks ‘Native’.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/8858010  The Mercury 29 March 1869 p. 3
Disorderly Females – Emma Turner and Mary Bell were convicted of vagrancy and sentenced to two and three months’ hard labor each.

Trove has several cuttings likely to be for that same Mary Bell in the 1860s. 


JM

[majm]

Birth at Sorrell
13 February 1867
George, male, father as Thomas LIDDINGTON, Mother as Mary LYDDINGTON, formerly BELL.  Father as Farm Labourer.   Informant: Thomas LYDDINGTON, who made his X mark 25 March 1867.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2S1-2VC2   

So if neither Thomas LIDDINGTON/LYDDINGTON nor Mary BELL were literate, then it is entirely possible that the baby registered 25 March 1867 as George was actually known as Thomas.  EDIT to note that reply 18 shows that in 1902 there's a George and a Thomas LYDINGTON as brothers for a Joseph LYDINGTON.  (watch the spelling !)

And it is also entirely possible that more than one lass was known as Mary BELL in Tasmania at that time.

JM