Author Topic: Recusants  (Read 334 times)

Offline BronwenS

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 700
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Recusants
« on: Monday 03 May 21 03:06 BST (UK) »
Kia ora

I am looking to see whether I have any ancestors who were 'recusants'.  I have seen on-line some in the Sussex Protestation Returns, but is there a separate list on-line anywhere that I could look to for specific names?

Any help appreciated.

Bronwen Summers
Aotearoa
Campbell, McKenzie, Ross, MacKay, Munro, Sutherland all of Ross & Comarty
Barry, Gibson, Watson, Summers, Edmonstone, Brock, McCartney all of Glasgow and environs
Erskine, Fletcher of Edinburgh

Offline Bookbox

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,542
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Recusants
« Reply #1 on: Monday 03 May 21 10:55 BST (UK) »
There is no consolidated online list of recusants for all counties at all periods (if that is what youíre asking?).

The Protestation Returns from 1642 are at the House of Lords Record Office, now Parliamentary Archives (only about one third of the total survive). They are essentially lists of those who signed, and they don't all include lists of recusants who didn't. The returns have been digitised online. You need to search by county.

https://archives.parliament.uk/research-guides/family-history/protestation-returns-for-family-history/

Some family history societies have published the surviving Protestation Returns for their own county, so itís worth looking at the societies' online publications lists individually. For example, the returns for Middlesex (issued by the West Middlesex FHS) are on FindMyPast.

For other records of Catholic recusants at other periods, see the standard TNA research guide, which gives an outline summary of the resources that survive and where to find them -- at TNA, other record offices, and online. 

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/catholics/


Offline melba_schmelba

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 863
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Recusants
« Reply #2 on: Monday 03 May 21 12:58 BST (UK) »
Kia ora

I am looking to see whether I have any ancestors who were 'recusants'.  I have seen on-line some in the Sussex Protestation Returns, but is there a separate list on-line anywhere that I could look to for specific names?

Any help appreciated.

Bronwen Summers
Aotearoa
Do you think they were Catholics (note not all recusants were always Catholic, it could refer to non conformists)? If so the Margaret Higgins database might help which was recently made available for free by the Catholic Family History Society

https://catholicfhs.online/images/cfhs/higginsdb/PDF/Title&Intro.pdf (it easiest to download the spreadsheet and search this using the find function or simply scroll the list, which an be a better idea in order to find spelling variations)

I am not sure it includes the 1642 list however.


Offline BronwenS

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 700
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Recusants
« Reply #3 on: Monday 03 May 21 23:11 BST (UK) »
Kia ora

Many thanks to you both. 

Yes I was hoping for a list within a county that just had recusants and not those who signed allegiance.  I have seen the 'book' that they have for Sussex with all and sundry on it. 

I have no idea whether they were Catholic or not.

Many thanks for the ideas of where to look I shall look into them.

Nga mihi
Bronwen
Aotearoa
Campbell, McKenzie, Ross, MacKay, Munro, Sutherland all of Ross & Comarty
Barry, Gibson, Watson, Summers, Edmonstone, Brock, McCartney all of Glasgow and environs
Erskine, Fletcher of Edinburgh

Offline GrahamSimons

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,748
    • View Profile
Re: Recusants
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 04 May 21 12:41 BST (UK) »
Simons Barrett Jaffray Waugh Langdale Heugh Meade Garnsey Evans Vazie Mountcure Glascodine Parish Peard Smart Dobbie Sinclair....
in Stirlingshire, Roxburghshire; Bucks; Devon; Somerset; Northumberland; Carmarthenshire; Glamorgan

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,094
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Recusants
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 04 May 21 20:36 BST (UK) »

Yes I was hoping for a list within a county that just had recusants and not those who signed allegiance.  I have seen the 'book' that they have for Sussex with all and sundry on it. 

I have no idea whether they were Catholic or not.

Mine were all in Lancashire (the county with the largest proportion of Catholics)  which was in the diocese of Chester. Protestation returns for that county are split into parishes. Each parish list begins with those men who took the oath followed by a shorter list of those who didn't. Proportions in each category and many surnames in a parish where a line of my R.C. ancestors lived until 1800's were similar to those on Return of Papists 1767.

Catholic Family History Society
catholicfhs.online
https://www.facebook.com/CatholicFHS

Returns of Papists 1680-1781
https://archives.parliament.uk/research-guides/family-history/family-history-roman-catholics/
Click on link "papist returns" in section 4 "How to get started" for catalogue contents.
1767 Return is the most detailed.

Return of Papists 1767 was transcribed by E.S. Worrall and was published by the Catholic Record Society in 2 volumes.  Vol. 1 is "Returns of Papists 1767 Dioceses of England and Wales except Chester". Vol. 2 is "Returns of Papists 1767 Diocese of Chester". Catholic Record Society publications are now on the Catholic Family History Society website. Some were previously digitised on other sites.

"The Catholic Family Historian's Handbook" by A.J. Mitchison (published 1999) is a short introduction. Sources in some lists in it are out of date. It's online.


Do you think they were Catholics (note not all recusants were always Catholic, it could refer to non conformists)?

To add: Not all Catholics were recusants. Some conformed outwardly ("supping with the parson" referring to taking Holy Communion) and some did the bare minimum (attending church when required but taking no part in the service) to avoid fines. A man may have been a recusant on one occasion but not on another, depending on circumstances, e.g. how harsh the penalty was or the wording of an oath or the political situation at the time.
Some lists of recusants included only adult men. An Anglican man may have had a wife and/or children who weren't Anglican.

There were also "non-jurors" who refused to take the oath of allegiance to William & Mary in 1688. Some non-jurors in England were Anglican.   

 

 
Cowban

Offline BronwenS

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 700
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Recusants
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 04 May 21 21:18 BST (UK) »
Many thanks for your in-depth reply, this is really helpful.  I had started looking at the list from the link Melba had sent me.

Nga mihi (best wishes)
Bronwen
Otautahi (Christchurch)
Aotearoa on a frosty but gorgeous morning!
Campbell, McKenzie, Ross, MacKay, Munro, Sutherland all of Ross & Comarty
Barry, Gibson, Watson, Summers, Edmonstone, Brock, McCartney all of Glasgow and environs
Erskine, Fletcher of Edinburgh

Offline melba_schmelba

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 863
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Recusants
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 04 May 21 21:33 BST (UK) »
Many thanks for your in-depth reply, this is really helpful.  I had started looking at the list from the link Melba had sent me.

Nga mihi (best wishes)
Bronwen
Otautahi (Christchurch)
Aotearoa on a frosty but gorgeous morning!
The Margaret Higgins Database, made by Br. Rory Higgins of Australia, really is a great resource for anyone who has or thinks they may have Catholic ancestry. It includes all of the surviving 1767 returns I think, and the introduction text (basically a somewhat condensed history of Catholics in England with many interesting characters and facts) is a fascinating read in itself.

Offline BronwenS

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 700
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Recusants
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 04 May 21 21:46 BST (UK) »
Yes you are absolutely right, I read a lot of it yesterday. 

Nga mihi
Bronwen
Aotearoa
Campbell, McKenzie, Ross, MacKay, Munro, Sutherland all of Ross & Comarty
Barry, Gibson, Watson, Summers, Edmonstone, Brock, McCartney all of Glasgow and environs
Erskine, Fletcher of Edinburgh