Author Topic: John doyle of Lucan, maybe  (Read 2085 times)

Offline Rosinish

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Re: John doyle of Lucan, maybe
« Reply #27 on: Saturday 08 May 21 09:21 BST (UK) »
The church record too has Catherine Christian as though it is her surname and there is the ‘America’ question.

It's difficult to know on the marriage entry whether Christian is a middle name or a surname as all the entries differ.

All the children in Reply #5 have the mother recorded as Christine/Christiana without 'Catherine'

I'm curious about the witness Catherine Byrne...

Could she be a sister (possibly from Reply #5) i.e. it may be worth looking for a marriage around the same area of a Catherine Donegan/Doonegan to Byrne or a Catherine Doyle to Byrne?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Online heywood

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Re: John doyle of Lucan, maybe
« Reply #28 on: Saturday 08 May 21 10:07 BST (UK) »
I have a theory
That John for some reason changed his surname and his mother may of had the middle name Christina. If I take those factors into account, I find these things

1820 Marriage of THOMAS DOONIGAN   CATHERINE MURRAY - Lucan
1821 Baptism of CATHERINE DOONIGAN - Lucan - Parents listed as THOMAS DOONIGAN  CHRISTIANA DOONIGAN
1826 Baptism of THOMAS DOONIGAN - lucan - Parents listed as THOS. DOONIGAN CHRISTIAN DOONIGAN
1831 Baptism of ANN DONEGAN - Palmerstown - Parents listed as THOS. [THOMAS] DONEGAN CHRISTINE DONEGAN
1831 Baptism of DANL DONEGAN - Palmerstown - Parents listed as THOS. [THOMAS] DONEGAN CHRISTINA DONEGAN
1833 Baptism of JNO. [JOHN] DONEGAN - Palmerstown - Parents Listed as THOMAS DONEGAN
CHRISTINA DONEGAN

1835 Baptism of MARY DONNEGAN - Palmerstown - Parents listed as THOS. [THOMAS] DONNEGAN
CHRISTINA DONNEGAN

Has anyone ever come accross a last name change while still in the their birth country and using the fathers real surname on documents?

Looking at these baptisms, none give the mother’s surname.
There are baptisms for
William Doonegan and Daniel Doonegan both in Palmerstown in 1838 with parents Thomas and Christian Owens. The register is shown on Ancestry but not on Irish genealogy

https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qlw/

There is a marriage here:

Marriage - Thomas Dungan and Christina Owens
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qlv/
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline maresscares

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Re: John doyle of Lucan, maybe
« Reply #29 on: Saturday 08 May 21 12:24 BST (UK) »

Mine actually state 'Previously' with their original surname.

Could John Doyle have been illegitimate although he knew his father's name, didn't know him personally & preferred to keep his 'birth' name?

Annie

Add...Is not not odd, if his mother was Catherine Christina, out of 3 daughters none are named after his mother


Could be Illegitimate, as for none being named after the mother, it's not the first time i've seen that happen

I have a theory
That John for some reason changed his surname and his mother may of had the middle name Christina. If I take those factors into account, I find these things

1820 Marriage of THOMAS DOONIGAN   CATHERINE MURRAY - Lucan
1821 Baptism of CATHERINE DOONIGAN - Lucan - Parents listed as THOMAS DOONIGAN  CHRISTIANA DOONIGAN
1826 Baptism of THOMAS DOONIGAN - lucan - Parents listed as THOS. DOONIGAN CHRISTIAN DOONIGAN
1831 Baptism of ANN DONEGAN - Palmerstown - Parents listed as THOS. [THOMAS] DONEGAN CHRISTINE DONEGAN
1831 Baptism of DANL DONEGAN - Palmerstown - Parents listed as THOS. [THOMAS] DONEGAN CHRISTINA DONEGAN
1833 Baptism of JNO. [JOHN] DONEGAN - Palmerstown - Parents Listed as THOMAS DONEGAN
CHRISTINA DONEGAN

1835 Baptism of MARY DONNEGAN - Palmerstown - Parents listed as THOS. [THOMAS] DONNEGAN
CHRISTINA DONNEGAN

Has anyone ever come accross a last name change while still in the their birth country and using the fathers real surname on documents?

Looking at these baptisms, none give the mother’s surname.
There are baptisms for
William Doonegan and Daniel Doonegan both in Palmerstown in 1838 with parents Thomas and Christian Owens. The register is shown on Ancestry but not on Irish genealogy

https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qlw/

There is a marriage here:

Marriage - Thomas Dungan and Christina Owens
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qlv/

I've been through Thomas Doyle, Patrick doyle, Thomas Dunegan, Patrick dunegan, Catherine Murray, Catherine Christian, catherine Doyle and catherine Dunegan combination that I could think of, in and around the Dublin area, and the 1820 Marriage of THOMAS DOONIGAN   CATHERINE MURRAY - Lucan is the closest i've come, . Oh I even tried as far as Maynooth, which is where I found Hannah

As for the America part, i don't even want to attempt to go down that rabbit hole
Down and Antrim - Orr, Kelly, Murray, Davey, Little, Phillips, McDowell, Morell, McKee, Crothers, Freeburn, Stewart, Holmes, Hill, McInnis.

Dublin and Kildare - Doyle, McMullen, Duffy

Other - Dundonald Ayrshire, Barrow-in-Furness Lancashire. Kent, Victoria and Western Australia

Offline maresscares

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Re: John doyle of Lucan, maybe
« Reply #30 on: Saturday 08 May 21 12:29 BST (UK) »
1826 Baptism of THOMAS DOONIGAN - lucan - Parents listed as THOS. DOONIGAN CHRISTIAN DOONIGAN

This is what made me think it's  Catherine Murray using her middle as her first name

Oh and i've scrolled through the online parish records at the NLI
Down and Antrim - Orr, Kelly, Murray, Davey, Little, Phillips, McDowell, Morell, McKee, Crothers, Freeburn, Stewart, Holmes, Hill, McInnis.

Dublin and Kildare - Doyle, McMullen, Duffy

Other - Dundonald Ayrshire, Barrow-in-Furness Lancashire. Kent, Victoria and Western Australia


Online heywood

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Re: John doyle of Lucan, maybe
« Reply #31 on: Saturday 08 May 21 12:48 BST (UK) »
It is very frustrating - I, too, have been going through all the variations you have identified.

You have:
1831 Baptism of ANN DONEGAN - Palmerstown - Parents listed as THOS. [THOMAS] DONEGAN CHRISTINE DONEGAN
1831 Baptism of DANL DONEGAN - Palmerstown - Parents listed as THOS. [THOMAS] DONEGAN CHRISTINA DONEGAN

Ann’s  Sponsors are William and Bridget Owens

Whilst these are the only sponsors with a possible name connection, I now wonder if all those children hacpve a mother Christine/Christiana Owens.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline maresscares

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Re: John doyle of Lucan, maybe
« Reply #32 on: Saturday 08 May 21 12:55 BST (UK) »
It is very frustrating - I, too, have been going through all the variations you have identified.

You have:
1831 Baptism of ANN DONEGAN - Palmerstown - Parents listed as THOS. [THOMAS] DONEGAN CHRISTINE DONEGAN
1831 Baptism of DANL DONEGAN - Palmerstown - Parents listed as THOS. [THOMAS] DONEGAN CHRISTINA DONEGAN

Ann’s  Sponsors are William and Bridget Owens

Whilst these are the only sponsors with a possible name connection, I now wonder if all those children hacpve a mother Christine/Christiana Owens.

So very frustrating at times, I'm not ready to throw the towel in on this one yet. This isn't even my worst brickwall, which is a complete dead end.
Down and Antrim - Orr, Kelly, Murray, Davey, Little, Phillips, McDowell, Morell, McKee, Crothers, Freeburn, Stewart, Holmes, Hill, McInnis.

Dublin and Kildare - Doyle, McMullen, Duffy

Other - Dundonald Ayrshire, Barrow-in-Furness Lancashire. Kent, Victoria and Western Australia

Online heywood

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Re: John doyle of Lucan, maybe
« Reply #33 on: Saturday 08 May 21 12:58 BST (UK) »
There are ‘Christian’ surnames in the area too but I can’t see a Catherine  :-\
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: John doyle of Lucan, maybe
« Reply #34 on: Saturday 08 May 21 13:44 BST (UK) »

Doyle, John. age 70, Born Dublin, Parents Patrick and Murray, Catherine, Death 6/10/1904 Beaconsfield

A pall bearer was Mr. W. Murray. Do you know who he was?
Cowban

Offline maresscares

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Re: John doyle of Lucan, maybe
« Reply #35 on: Saturday 08 May 21 14:07 BST (UK) »

Doyle, John. age 70, Born Dublin, Parents Patrick and Murray, Catherine, Death 6/10/1904 Beaconsfield

A pall bearer was Mr. W. Murray. Do you know who he was?

No, and  and i've never met any of his other decendants
Down and Antrim - Orr, Kelly, Murray, Davey, Little, Phillips, McDowell, Morell, McKee, Crothers, Freeburn, Stewart, Holmes, Hill, McInnis.

Dublin and Kildare - Doyle, McMullen, Duffy

Other - Dundonald Ayrshire, Barrow-in-Furness Lancashire. Kent, Victoria and Western Australia