Author Topic: WW1Military medal details  (Read 823 times)

Offline jim1

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Re: WW1Military medal details
« Reply #9 on: Friday 14 May 21 12:05 BST (UK) »
Although the diary doesn't mention what he actually did to get his MM
knowing what went on gives an insight into the probability.
An overview is that this was at the end of the Somme Offensive & the
allies had reached the outskirts of Passchendaele.(just off the right of this map)
The 1st. Div. of which 216 Coy. MGC were in were positioned in the old German trench system in
V 28.
On 10/11/17 the 3rd. Bde. 1/Div. were tasked with taking the ridge that ran from Tournant farm
to Vocation farm.
216 Coy. MGC were positioned at the cemetery next to the "D" this was a defensive position
in case of a counter-attack. They also laid down a barrage while the attack took place.
The problems started before they set off, it rained continuously flooding the gun pits
& turning the ground to a sea of mud.
The right flank made little progress as a result of this & along with heavy shelling were forced to withdraw.
The left flank took their objective but were heavily shelled & were unable to defend it
as their guns were jamming from the mud.
The Germans counter-attacked & drove the 3rd. Bde. back across the Paddlebeek in V 28.
The MGC Coys (24 guns in total) were ordered to fire on any Germans seen.
Re-loading the leather gun belts was almost impossible as they were "sodden".
The situation at this time was the 216 Coy. were virtually the last men standing as the other MGC Coys. & infantry were now back in their defensive lines in V 28.
Visibility was poor owing to the mist but did suffer from shelling.
You would have to conclude that your man stayed at gun post & fired on or in the direction of
the German counter-attack allowing the infantry to withdraw succesfully.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline Jack TT

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Re: WW1Military medal details
« Reply #10 on: Friday 14 May 21 12:14 BST (UK) »
Thank you so much Jim 1, I really appreciate your research in helping me with L/Cpl. Howard.
Best wishes.

Offline jim1

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Re: WW1Military medal details
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 15 May 21 12:22 BST (UK) »
Eugene was Pte. 4364 of the 3rd. Special Reserve RMF.
A bit of background info.
The 2nd. Btn. went overseas late August 1914 & were
caught up in the retreat from Mons.
In order for the 1st. Div. to get away 2/RMF were ordered to form
a rearguard.
The Btn. was pretty much wiped out.
Only 5 Officers & 196 men made it out.
The Btn. was taken out of the line in order to rebuild & attached to the
1st. Coldstreams.(2/RMF were in the Guards Bde. 1st. Div. at this time).
Men from the 3rd. SR RMF were posted to the 2nd. & in Nov. transferred
to the 3rd. Bde. 1st. Div.
Eugene arrived in France on the 31/8/1914 & caught up with the 2nd.
on the 6th. Sept.
After stemming the retreat & fighting back (that's another story)
they marched to Festubert/Givenchy arriving on the 22nd. Dec. 1914.
The action mentioned in the newspaper occurred on the 26th. Jan. 1915.
This was the Keizer's birthday so they launched a surprise attack by
first exploding a mine under the trench occupied by the Coldstreams.
The 3rd. Bde. diary gives a 10 page account of the action so I'll read through it
& see what's there.
I'll let you digest this first.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline jim1

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Re: WW1Military medal details
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 15 May 21 15:23 BST (UK) »
The first thing to mention is that in 1914/15 there was a dearth of maps
in the BEF & so had to rely on tracings/sketches of those they did have.
The sketch below is typical of this time but it does show the deployment of
2/RMF on the 26th. Jan.
I also include a page explaining where they all were.
The 2nd. map (from 1916) shows the progress of the attack & where your man was
when he was put forward for a DCM.
The 2nd. page mentions the 2 MG's manned by your man & Sgt. Walshe (KIA Aug. 1916).
An overview of the attack is that at 8.20 am. the Germans launched a fierce attack on the
British lines following an intensive bombardment of their positions & the village of Givenchy.
The brunt of the attack took place on the southern end of the line involving the Gloucesters,
R. Welch & RWF & the Guards Bde. further south.
The Germans took the ruins of Givenchy & the southern trenches driving the British out.
Counter-attacks were launched & Givenchy & the trenches were regained. This involved hand to hand fighting.
The Germans changed tack & moved to the Canal Bank & made there way along it towards the spoil bank.
It was at this point they encountered Eugene & Sgt. Walshe who held off the advance allowing the
other Btn's to re-group but were forced to withdraw as they were about to be surrounded.
They set up again further west at the spoil bank where the Germans were repulsed & driven back to their own lines.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/


Offline ThrelfallYorky

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Re: WW1Military medal details
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 15 May 21 15:39 BST (UK) »
How fascinating to see that there can be such a wealth of information there concerning things that happened so long ago.
I never managed to find out more about my own grandfather's WW1 life as a member of the MGC, but how wonderful for JackTT that you have found so much to help him, Jim1.
You are truly an expert resource in one person!
Threlfall (Southport), Isherwood (lancs & Canada), Newbould + Topliss(Derby), Keating & Cummins (Ireland + lancs), Fisher, Strong& Casson (all Cumberland) & Downie & Bowie, Linlithgow area Scotland . Also interested in Leigh& Burrows,(Lancashire) Griffiths (Shropshire & lancs), Leaver (Lancs/Yorks) & Anderson(Cumberland and very elusive)

Offline jim1

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Re: WW1Military medal details
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 15 May 21 16:34 BST (UK) »
They must have been delighted after all they went through from the outbreak of war
to find they were being posted away from the Western Front in May to......Gallipoli.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline Jack TT

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Re: WW1Military medal details
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 15 May 21 16:38 BST (UK) »
Thanks so much Jim 1, believe it or not, I have never seen the the 10 page account of this action. I read a letter by Sgt Walsh , i think to his wife or mother, where he tells her about this particular action, however, I did not keep a copy.
Eugene survived the war and rejoined in 1919 serving in Egypt with the Munsters until 1922.
Some years ago, a cousin from Australia was visiting her family in the UK, she enquired about her grandfather Eugene. after searching some black rubbish bags, she found some details of his service with RMF, including a 12 page precise. This was all about his attempts to secure a pension for injuries received whilst in service, he eventually got it!! There is an interesting report by Eugene on his last wounding in 1918, approximately 1 x A4 page as well as education certificates and some other papers. Unfortunately it appears that quite a lot of his army related paperwork have been dumped!
I have managed to find some poetry that he had published in 1915 , written in the trenches and sent to an Irish newspaper.
I have tried to get his Military record fro the MOD as NOK, but even though he left in 1922, they cannot locate it.
One other copy of a letter is from the Chelsea pensioners, they state that he did not qualify for a placement, they also make reference to having received his service record, this was in 1926.
I have put a reasonable timeline together over the years, including any facts etc. and Jim1s, research will be added .
Again, many many thanks for taking the trouble to research this
regards

Offline Jack TT

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Re: WW1Military medal details
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 15 May 21 16:39 BST (UK) »
I have just seen your last about Gallipoli, Eugene wrote a letter to his mother( published in Kerry newspaper) he covers his time there. He was sent there to recuperate after getting wounded in France! very thoughtful of the Munsters :)

Offline jim1

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Re: WW1Military medal details
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 15 May 21 17:02 BST (UK) »
Being a 14 Star recipient marks him out as an Old Contemptible".
This being a reference to the retreat from Mons when the Keizer
referred to the BEF as a "contemptible little Army".
The British press seized on this (anything to discredit the Keizer)
& from then on they wore it like a badge of honour.
Not the sharpest pencil was he.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/