Author Topic: Where do I go from here? Losing hope...  (Read 1301 times)

Offline QueenoftheWest

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,376
    • View Profile
Where do I go from here? Losing hope...
« on: Sunday 09 May 21 17:37 BST (UK) »
For background:

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=844934.0


Hello everyone,

I come to you again for help/advice regarding my mysterious great-great-grandfather, Laurance John Laurance who changed his name to Hobbs and married my great-great-grandmother, Eleanor Palmer. I exhausted all paper resources so I decided to try the DNA route instead and sent my mum's DNA off to Ancestry. She is Laurie & Eleanor's great-granddaughter.

On Friday, I received the results. On the whole, the results appear to be very accurate. On Eleanor's side, I have quite a few tentative matches through ThruLines - 7 DNA matches through her paternal grandparents and 6 DNA matches through her maternal grandparents. I know ThruLines should be taken with a pinch of salt but >5 matches and I'd say there is a good chance of genetic relation.

However, none of the trees linked to any of my DNA matches have any Lawrences (of any spelling) or Ecclestones in the right area during the right time period. On the other hand, Sarah might have made everything up and sent me on a wild goose chase.

I have a father I suspect (see other thread) but no obvious matches. I have also searched by location but could find nothing relevant. Also, my mum is the only descendant of Laurie and Eleanor who has tested and she doesn't know any of the Hobbs cousins.

Out of all my 'Extended Family' cousin DNA matches (48), there are only 11 I cannot yet link to my mum's other great-grandparents. However, they don't have trees (of course!) and their names are either too common or simply their initials.

Where do I go from here? I have uploaded to GEDMatch and I am just waiting for 24-48 hours for it to process. Is it worth uploading my DNA to MyHeritage?

Does any have any tips for people searching for the ancestry of ancestors who were not raised by their parents?

Am I just on a hiding to nothing?  :(

I am also posting an update to the London & Middlesex board just to keep it updated with the latest information.

Queenie  :)

P.S Is there anyway to see how matches are related to each other on Ancestry? For example, Mr X & Mrs Y are listed as my mum's 2nd-3rd and 3rd-4th cousin respectively. They both match each other when looking at the shared matches tab. I know their degree of relation to my mum but is there a way to find out their degree of relation to each other i.e. are they second or third cousins? I know how Mrs Y is related to my mum (she's my mum's second cousin once removed) but not Mr X.

Fidler - West Ilsley, Berkshire
Hamlin/Hamlyn - Long Sutton & Martock, Somerset
Head - Marlborough & Alton Priors, Wiltshire
Minson - Kingstone, Somerset/Symondsbury, Dorset
Owsley - Buckland St Mary, Somerset
Pyke - (West) Weeke/Wick, Pewsey, Wiltshire
Salisbury - Dowlish Wake/West Dowlish, Somerset

Offline davidft

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,209
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Where do I go from here? Losing hope...
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 09 May 21 18:39 BST (UK) »
Where do I go from here? I have uploaded to GEDMatch and I am just waiting for 24-48 hours for it to process. Is it worth uploading my DNA to MyHeritage?
Queenie  :)


In my opinion it is more useful uploading to Gedmatch, MyHeritage or FTDNA than Ancestry. The reason for this is that these sites tell you where you match on each individual chromosome and this makes it easier to accept or reject matches. That said the fact that you have already tested with Ancestry is a plus as it is easier to upload data from there to the other sites than vice versa.

I would say yes upload to MyHeritage but you will have to be patient as the response to matching is no where near as quick as it use to be and of course it is dependent on people who would be a match also having uploaded.

So yes to uploading to MyHeritage provided you accept that it may be some while before you get a really useful match, if ever.

Good luck.
James Stott c1775-1850. James was born in Yorkshire but where? He was a stonemason and married Elizabeth Archer (nee Nicholson) in 1794 at Ripon. They lived thereafter in Masham. If anyone has any suggestions or leads as to his birthplace I would be interested to know. I have searched for it for years without success. Thank you.

Offline Petros

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 349
    • View Profile
Re: Where do I go from here? Losing hope...
« Reply #2 on: Monday 10 May 21 07:41 BST (UK) »
Another advantage of myHeritage is that it tells you how closely shared matches are to both of you

Offline QueenoftheWest

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,376
    • View Profile
Re: Where do I go from here? Losing hope...
« Reply #3 on: Monday 10 May 21 15:06 BST (UK) »
Thank you both for your replies.

I will upload to MyHeritage and hope for the best!

Queenie  :)
Fidler - West Ilsley, Berkshire
Hamlin/Hamlyn - Long Sutton & Martock, Somerset
Head - Marlborough & Alton Priors, Wiltshire
Minson - Kingstone, Somerset/Symondsbury, Dorset
Owsley - Buckland St Mary, Somerset
Pyke - (West) Weeke/Wick, Pewsey, Wiltshire
Salisbury - Dowlish Wake/West Dowlish, Somerset


Offline phil57

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 643
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Where do I go from here? Losing hope...
« Reply #4 on: Monday 10 May 21 18:22 BST (UK) »
In my admittedly limited experience, you will be very lucky if you can actually identify relatives who share the same surname as you, your parents, grandparents or even their immediate ancestors, more often that not. It's more a matter of trusting that over a certain match threshold, your chances of being related are significant to a very high percentage, but you have to put some work in to find the relationship.

You can start by taking your tree back as far as you can go and then working forward again on as many collateral lines as you can, to as near the present time as possible, as 3rd, 4th and 5th cousins may well have names you have never heard of, but can still be instrumental in confirming the accuracy of your other research.

The amount of DNA that you share with a possible match can be entered on the DNA Painter site, and will help with an indication of the possible relationships you are likely looking at, and how many generations back you need to consider exploring. The tools available on GEDmatch are also very useful, particularly after you have obtained a few proven matches and can compare chromosomes and segments that you match on, against those for new matches, that can indicate the possible family line that connects you.

As an example, I explored a match with someone whose name meant nothing to me. We exchanged parents and grandparents names, and none of those meant anything to either of us, but she had  several relatives who came from the same area of the country as my grandmother. I took that line of her family further back using GRO and census searches, but it petered out when it went over to Ireland, and I have no known links in that direction.

Then I happened to notice that one particular ancestor of her mothers, who I will refer to as Mr. SMITH, three generations back, had been born in a town where I knew that the family of the person who I believed to be my orphaned grandfather were from. My matches' tree hadn't been explored beyond that point, and as I wasn't that sure about the identities of my grandfather's parents and ancestors, that part of my tree was pretty sparse as well. So I set about researching those lines in both my tree and my possible matches' tree. I found that a Miss SMITH had married one of my suspected Gx3 grandfathers, and that one of Miss SMITH's brothers was a direct ancestor of my matches' grandmother.

So I had a set of shared Gx4 grandparents with that match, which supported the link to my suspected grandmother. I also investigated another possible match with a name that again meant nothing to me, and he similarly turned out to be a 4th cousin linking me to my grandfather's suspected paternal line. Neither match on their own would have been wholly conclusive, but with matches linking me to both maternal and paternal sides of the family, I'm now pretty happy that my suspicions are correct. If I'd just looked at the names and discounted both matches on the basis that they meant nothing to me, I'd still have no idea where my grandfather was from!

I can also recommend a book called Tracing Your Ancestors Using DNA, edited by Graham S. Holton. It covers DNA investigation in some depth, but in a way that makes it easy for someone with no previous knowledge to understand, and I found it well worth reading and still reference it from time to time.

So my advice would be not to get dispirited, but don't expect matches to simply fall into your lap and have everything fit straight into place. You may have to do some (or quite a lot) of investigative work, either jointly with your match or perhaps investigating their tree yourself, before you find the links.

Good luck!
Stokes - London and Essex
Hodges - Somerset
Murden - Notts
Humphries/Humphreys from Montgomeryshire

Offline QueenoftheWest

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,376
    • View Profile
Re: Where do I go from here? Losing hope...
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 11 May 21 18:04 BST (UK) »
In my admittedly limited experience, you will be very lucky if you can actually identify relatives who share the same surname as you, your parents, grandparents or even their immediate ancestors, more often that not. It's more a matter of trusting that over a certain match threshold, your chances of being related are significant to a very high percentage, but you have to put some work in to find the relationship.

You can start by taking your tree back as far as you can go and then working forward again on as many collateral lines as you can, to as near the present time as possible, as 3rd, 4th and 5th cousins may well have names you have never heard of, but can still be instrumental in confirming the accuracy of your other research.

The amount of DNA that you share with a possible match can be entered on the DNA Painter site, and will help with an indication of the possible relationships you are likely looking at, and how many generations back you need to consider exploring. The tools available on GEDmatch are also very useful, particularly after you have obtained a few proven matches and can compare chromosomes and segments that you match on, against those for new matches, that can indicate the possible family line that connects you.

As an example, I explored a match with someone whose name meant nothing to me. We exchanged parents and grandparents names, and none of those meant anything to either of us, but she had  several relatives who came from the same area of the country as my grandmother. I took that line of her family further back using GRO and census searches, but it petered out when it went over to Ireland, and I have no known links in that direction.

Then I happened to notice that one particular ancestor of her mothers, who I will refer to as Mr. SMITH, three generations back, had been born in a town where I knew that the family of the person who I believed to be my orphaned grandfather were from. My matches' tree hadn't been explored beyond that point, and as I wasn't that sure about the identities of my grandfather's parents and ancestors, that part of my tree was pretty sparse as well. So I set about researching those lines in both my tree and my possible matches' tree. I found that a Miss SMITH had married one of my suspected Gx3 grandfathers, and that one of Miss SMITH's brothers was a direct ancestor of my matches' grandmother.

So I had a set of shared Gx4 grandparents with that match, which supported the link to my suspected grandmother. I also investigated another possible match with a name that again meant nothing to me, and he similarly turned out to be a 4th cousin linking me to my grandfather's suspected paternal line. Neither match on their own would have been wholly conclusive, but with matches linking me to both maternal and paternal sides of the family, I'm now pretty happy that my suspicions are correct. If I'd just looked at the names and discounted both matches on the basis that they meant nothing to me, I'd still have no idea where my grandfather was from!

I can also recommend a book called Tracing Your Ancestors Using DNA, edited by Graham S. Holton. It covers DNA investigation in some depth, but in a way that makes it easy for someone with no previous knowledge to understand, and I found it well worth reading and still reference it from time to time.

So my advice would be not to get dispirited, but don't expect matches to simply fall into your lap and have everything fit straight into place. You may have to do some (or quite a lot) of investigative work, either jointly with your match or perhaps investigating their tree yourself, before you find the links.

Good luck!

Thank you, Phil. It was interesting to read about your mystery and how you solved it. I can only hope that with time and effort I will eventually chip away enough to break down my brick wall.

Thank you also for the book recommendation. I will certainly check it out. I was definitely under the misapprehension that this whole DNA thing would be fairly straightforward. I have a lot to learn!

Queenie  :)
Fidler - West Ilsley, Berkshire
Hamlin/Hamlyn - Long Sutton & Martock, Somerset
Head - Marlborough & Alton Priors, Wiltshire
Minson - Kingstone, Somerset/Symondsbury, Dorset
Owsley - Buckland St Mary, Somerset
Pyke - (West) Weeke/Wick, Pewsey, Wiltshire
Salisbury - Dowlish Wake/West Dowlish, Somerset

Offline Rosinish

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,239
  • PASSED & PAST
    • View Profile
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Ruskie

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 26,198
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Where do I go from here? Losing hope...
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 12 May 21 03:33 BST (UK) »
When you upload your raw data to MyHeriatge (and FTDNA I think is the same?), it is advisable to pay the one off fee to unlock the advanced tools of the site such as the chromosome browser and autoclusters.

My Heritage can be useful for Jewish matches - I notice on your other thread was mention of possible Jewish connections.  ;)

Offline Rosinish

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,239
  • PASSED & PAST
    • View Profile
Re: Where do I go from here? Losing hope...
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 12 May 21 03:44 BST (UK) »
Ruskie...

That's a good piece of info!

I hadn't thought about MH being useful for Jewish connections but it makes sense with the site being Israeli.

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"