Author Topic: Emanuel Joseph Taylor - I thought this would be straight forward!  (Read 1181 times)

Offline AJH - Holmes and Gordon

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Emanuel Joseph Taylor - I thought this would be straight forward!
« on: Tuesday 11 May 21 08:37 BST (UK) »
My great-great grandfather Emanual Joseph Taylor was born 1879 in Tynemouth and died at the Somme 1916. A lot is known about his military record, his wife Mary Ellen Atkinson, their 9 children and the Atkinson branch. A quick search and you find a marriage in 1901, then the family in 1901 and 1911 in Morpeth. Before that though I am struggling.

I thought his name would help, in that it is rather unique (to me anyway). He was known as 'Manny', and his name is spelt Emanuel or Emmanuel in different records. I have a birth in 1879 which matches, but I cannot find him in 1881 and 1891.

Of his parents, I believe his father to be of the same name (who I refer to as Emmanuel Senior), and mum to be Sarah Jane Wales, though looking at my notes, I cannot recall how I came to this conclusion. From there, I have pre 1881 record matches, but again nothing when they're married and with children in 1881 and 1891.

Pre 1881 I believe Emmanuel seniors parents to be James Clark (Scotland) and Margeret Appleby (Tynemouth). Emmanuel Snr is present in 1861 with family, 1871 with just widowed Margeret as a shoemaker is North Shields. Again nothing in 1881 for now married Emmanuel Snr or child Emmanuel Jnr, but his mum Margaret is with his now married brother Richard.

This is where I think I'm wandering too far. There is a possible marriage 2 years previous for Emmanuel Snr to an Emily Wagner, though of no relevence yet. I also found an interesting article in 1883 stating an Emmanuel Joseph Taylor (shoemaker from North Shields) was sentenced to 3 months for shop theft, which would be 5 years after he married Sarah. This led me to other crinimal records from around the country but again I'm wandering and making too many assumptions.

So my question, are there any other ways I can find Emmanuel Jnr or Snr in the 1881 and 1891 census records? Is there anything I have missed or sins I have broken! Also, I don't believe there are any gaps in the records for the areas I am searching.

Offline trish1120

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Re: Emanuel Joseph Taylor - I thought this would be straight forward!
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 11 May 21 10:14 BST (UK) »
The 1901 Marriage is on Anc and F/S.Org. His father has the same christian names.
But no other details are available.

1891 I think he is Emmanuel J Taylor age 12, a Nephew of Jane CRAIG.
He is born North Shields, Northumberland.
Also a William B Taylor age 8 is there also.

I havent looked a census yet for EJ Snr so will look later.

Back soon as my internet is slow ::)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline trish1120

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Re: Emanuel Joseph Taylor - I thought this would be straight forward!
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 11 May 21 10:35 BST (UK) »
TAYLOR, EMMANUEL  JOSEPH mmn WALES**** 
GRO Reference: 1879  M Quarter in TYNEMOUTH  Volume 10B  Page 192

TAYLOR, WILLIAM  REDFORD mmn WALES**** 
GRO Reference: 1882  S Quarter in SOUTH SHIELDS  Volume 10A  Page 706

So appears to be them in 1891 Census.

Jane Craig   57
Robert H Craig   19
Andrew J Craig   16
Albert J Craig   16
John S Bell   25
Mary J Bell   25
William Reynoldson 38
Thomas Wilcox   25
William Rogers   48
Emmanuel J Taylor 12
William B Taylor   8

Jane REDFORD married Alexander CRAIG 1861 Tynemouth.

Not sure how she fits in yet.
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline trish1120

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Re: Emanuel Joseph Taylor - I thought this would be straight forward!
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 11 May 21 11:16 BST (UK) »
Aaah ha ;D

WALES, SARAH  JANE mmn REDFORD***** 
GRO Reference: 1856  J Quarter in NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE  Volume 10B  Page 8

1901 Census
South Shields, Durham
Sarah Jane Taylor 44 Head Widow Charwoman born Newcastle, Northumberland
William M Taylor   17 Son Unm Occp Rivet Heater/Bolier born South Shields, Durham
Jonathan D Wills 48 Boarder

F/S has a Emily Christened 20 Jul 1884 St Hilda, South Shields to Emanuel Joseph and Sarah Jane Taylor but looking at FreeBMD she may have died age 1.

I agree I can see Emanuel 1861/1871  (Father James/Mother Margaret)

But I cant see him or Sarah and Emanuel Jnr in 1881 or Sarah in 1891 when the children are with the Craigs.
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)


Offline AJH - Holmes and Gordon

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Re: Emanuel Joseph Taylor - I thought this would be straight forward!
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 11 May 21 12:14 BST (UK) »
Aaah ha ;D

WALES, SARAH  JANE mmn REDFORD***** 
GRO Reference: 1856  J Quarter in NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE  Volume 10B  Page 8

1901 Census
South Shields, Durham
Sarah Jane Taylor 44 Head Widow Charwoman born Newcastle, Northumberland
William M Taylor   17 Son Unm Occp Rivet Heater/Bolier born South Shields, Durham
Jonathan D Wills 48 Boarder

F/S has a Emily Christened 20 Jul 1884 St Hilda, South Shields to Emanuel Joseph and Sarah Jane Taylor but looking at FreeBMD she may have died age 1.

I agree I can see Emanuel 1861/1871  IFather James/Mother Margaret)

But I cant see him or Sarah and Emanuel Jnr in 1881 or Sarah in 1891 when the children are with the Craigs.

Goodness me Trish, that is some digging and detective work. First thing, I was excited to see your first find in 1891 of Emanuel Jnr, though when I searched, I still couldn't find it (I'm using Find my Past). It's only when I searched Jane Craig I found them, it turns out it was transcribed as Emmanuel J SAYLOR! No wonder I couldn't find it.

Anyway, it took me a little while to see where you were going with the CRIAG line and other details and then it clicked, so thank you very much for that. It solves a couple of things and gives a new Redford line to explore.

So, we see Sarah was widowed in 1901, meaning Emmanuel Snr died between 1881-1901, however I cannot find anything. (Curious point, I see Sarah Jane is living next door to a CRAIG in 1901, maybe something there too).

Emmanuel Snr and Sarah Jane Taylor are both still missing in 1881 (as is Emanuel Jnr) and in 1891 with Emanuel Jnr elsewhere with relatives. What could be some of the possibilities here? I doubt they travelled. Maybe Emmanuel died in the 1880s, or perhaps prison, though I should still be able to find Sarah? Any thoughts?

Offline trish1120

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Re: Emanuel Joseph Taylor - I thought this would be straight forward!
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 11 May 21 12:27 BST (UK) »
I love the detective work as it keeps the brain working :)

Its frustrating not being able to find them together 1881 and Sarah in 1891.

I would think Emanuel Snr died between 1884 and 1901 as you say.

It is possible that they just broke up but I cant seem to find any death reg for him except this one.

Deaths Dec 1901
Taylor Emanuel   age 57** Gateshead 10a 572

But if him where was he 1891?
I cant see this one 1901 either.
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline AJH - Holmes and Gordon

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Re: Emanuel Joseph Taylor - I thought this would be straight forward!
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 11 May 21 12:40 BST (UK) »
I may have a possible match for Sarah Jane in 1891 living Westoe, South Shields as a widow living with daughter Jane (age 10) and a John Wickham (though for the life of me I cannot make out his relationship, doesn't appear to be lodger).

This would match with what I have execpt for birth years (1857 censes against my notes of 1855). I have 4 children of Emmanuel Snr and Sarah Jane, with the second being Jane Elizabeth b.1880, also matching.

If this is her, that just leaves 1881 and Emanuels death 1884-1891.

Offline AJH - Holmes and Gordon

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Re: Emanuel Joseph Taylor - I thought this would be straight forward!
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 11 May 21 13:14 BST (UK) »
Going back to a newspaper article I found, Emmanuel Joseph Taylor was jailed in 1883 for shop theft. There are a few articles about it but several details match leading me to believe it could be him. In 1871, he was living with his mum as a shoemakers apprentice in South Shields. The crime occured 12 years later in South Shields, with the prisoner Emmanuel working at the shoe makers shop. The article also mentions his wife Sarah pawning in some of the items.

Not long after in 1884, Emily is born. So between that and 1891 Emmanuel dies but still nothing matching in the records. Or could there be another reason Sarah is listed as widow besides the death of Emmanuel Snr?

Offline softly softly

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Re: Emanuel Joseph Taylor - I thought this would be straight forward!
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 11 May 21 15:52 BST (UK) »
Just putting this in as it may help??

Jane Elizabeth Taylor daughter of Emmanuel & Sarah Jane married John George Walker in South Shields 1902 and records her father as Samuel Joseph, probably an error, wonder if it records him as deceased?

John