Author Topic: Emanuel Joseph Taylor - I thought this would be straight forward!  (Read 1166 times)

Offline AJH - Holmes and Gordon

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Re: Emanuel Joseph Taylor - I thought this would be straight forward!
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 11 May 21 16:09 BST (UK) »
Just putting this in as it may help??

Jane Elizabeth Taylor daughter of Emmanuel & Sarah Jane married John George Walker in South Shields 1902 and records her father as Samuel Joseph, probably an error, wonder if it records him as deceased?

John

Interesting. Would the father being deceased be something I would find out on a certificate?

Offline softly softly

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Re: Emanuel Joseph Taylor - I thought this would be straight forward!
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 11 May 21 16:23 BST (UK) »
Hi, It would appear that Sarah Jane was a widow on the 1901 census, so this suggests that Emmanuel had died. However, I have 3 cases in my family history of someone recording they are a widow but in actual fact their spouses were still alive and kicking. possibly saving face. With regard to marriage certs the fathers name would be recorded along with his occupation if known. Unless the question was asked by the vicar/official conducting the ceremony whether the father was deceased or not then that info would possibly be recorded. You have 3 children who all married, Emmanuel 1901, Jane Elizabeth 1902 and William Redford 1904, one of these may record father as deceased.

Hope I've explained that ok.

John

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Re: Emanuel Joseph Taylor - I thought this would be straight forward!
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 11 May 21 19:29 BST (UK) »
Having spent like others the last hour or so I too cannot find them in 1881. One possible long shot could be the birth certs of Jane Elizabeth and William Redford. Should they give the same address we could then try that direction on census. Sorry could not help.,

John

Added William Redford born 10.6.1882 and Jane Elizabeth 24.6.1880

Offline AJH - Holmes and Gordon

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Re: Emanuel Joseph Taylor - I thought this would be straight forward!
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 11 May 21 20:56 BST (UK) »
Having spent like others the last hour or so I too cannot find them in 1881. One possible long shot could be the birth certs of Jane Elizabeth and William Redford. Should they give the same address we could then try that direction on census. Sorry could not help.,

John

Added William Redford born 10.6.1882 and Jane Elizabeth 24.6.1880

I appreciate yours and everyone elses help with this, sometime fresh eyes is all you need. The previous newspaper article mentioning both Emanuel and Sarah, states they were of North Street, South Shields. I have tried using the street address function and looked through all North Streets in Durham and South Shields in 1881, but nothing even close.

The two thefts and 3 month jail time were in 1883, so perhaps Emmanuel Snr was up to no good before and wanted to evade the census check in 1881, is this even possible? How strict were the door to door checks? Perhaps he carried on his criminal behavour after 1883 and Sarah just moved on, stating widow in the census (easier than divorse)? Am I thinking about this too much!?


Offline trish1120

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Re: Emanuel Joseph Taylor - I thought this would be straight forward!
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 13 May 21 14:17 BST (UK) »
My gut tells me this is him;

Deaths Dec 1901
Taylor Emanuel Gateshead 10a 572
Age 57

I cant see him 1901 Census though.

Trish :)
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Offline philipsearching

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Re: Emanuel Joseph Taylor - I thought this would be straight forward!
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 13 May 21 16:41 BST (UK) »
My gut tells me this is him;

Deaths Dec 1901
Taylor Emanuel Gateshead 10a 572
Age 57

I cant see him 1901 Census though.

Trish :)

Pre 1881 I believe Emmanuel seniors parents to be James Clark (Scotland) and Margeret Appleby (Tynemouth)

This would match with the birth (GRO):
TAYLOR Emmanuel Joseph, Jun qtr 1853 Tynemouth vol 10b p109, mmn APPLEBY

Please help me to help you by citing sources for information.

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Offline AJH - Holmes and Gordon

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Re: Emanuel Joseph Taylor - I thought this would be straight forward!
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 19 May 21 10:11 BST (UK) »
Thanks for all your help. I am still missing some details, but unless there are any other tricks to try for the missing census records, I think I have exhausted all avenues. Here is what I have about the troubled life of Emmanuel Joseph Taylor.

Emmanuel Joseph Taylor (Senior) was born 1853 Tynemouth, North Shields. He is present in 1861 with mother, father and siblings. In 1871 it is just himself and widowed mother Margaret at Wesleyan Chapel Chirton as an apprentice shoemaker.

In 1876 he marries his first wife Emily Wagner. Tragically, several months later she commits suicide through poisoning October 1876. This was reported in a lot of newspapers from Dundee to Leeds.

In 1878 he marries his second wife Sarah Jane Wales and have their first son Emanuel Jospeh Taylor (Junior) shortly after in 1879.

In 1881 his mum Margaret dies shortly before the 1881 census was taken.

In 1882, his second son William Redford Taylor was born.

In 1883, he is arrested and sentenced to 3 months for stealing boots at the shoe shop where he worked as referenced in several newspaper articles. 

What I cannot find is ...

Emmanuel Snr
1881 census onwards
death record

Sarah Jane Taylor
1881 census
1891 census

Emmanuel Jnr
1881 census

Notes

Emmanuel Jnr and William are present in 1891 as nephews in the Craig household. Thanks to Trish (see below) we find that Jane Craig was born Redford. Her sister Mary Ann Redford married Robert Wales and they had a daughter Sarah Jane Wales - Emmanuel 2nd wife. (Where are Emmanuel Snr and Sarah Jane in 1891?)

Sarah Jane Taylor is listed as widowed in 1901 living with son William.

I have done street searches to see if missing persons are present at the same address 10 before or after, but no luck. One curious point to note is that the Craig household in 1891 are living at  43 Northumberland Street, South Shields with the nephews. The article in 1883 about Emmauels arrest references North Street South Shields. Also, 10 years previously the Craig household are living at 23 Hudson Street North Shields in 1881. The article about the suicide of Emily Taylor mentions 15 Hudson Street. So it appears the Craigs and Taylors moved around with each other. Alexander Craig was a mariner and missing on some census's, presumably on voyages, so the thought crossed my mind that perhaps Emmanuel joined him and thats why he is missing on some census's too. Though I couldn't find any records and it would be quite a leap from a shoemaker.

WALES, SARAH  JANE mmn REDFORD***** 
GRO Reference: 1856  J Quarter in NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE  Volume 10B  Page 8

1901 Census
South Shields, Durham
Sarah Jane Taylor 44 Head Widow Charwoman born Newcastle, Northumberland
William M Taylor   17 Son Unm Occp Rivet Heater/Bolier born South Shields, Durham
Jonathan D Wills 48 Boarder

Offline trish1120

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Re: Emanuel Joseph Taylor - I thought this would be straight forward!
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 19 May 21 11:31 BST (UK) »
If you can afford it I would buy that 1901 Death Cert.

Trish :)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline AJH - Holmes and Gordon

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Re: Emanuel Joseph Taylor - I thought this would be straight forward!
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 19 May 21 11:37 BST (UK) »
If you can afford it I would buy that 1901 Death Cert.

Trish :)

Sarah is listed as widowed June 1901 so it's unlikely, though I'm sure there are various reasons why it could fit. I'm certainly going to invest in a certificate or two, just debating which would give the best information  :)