Author Topic: Miranda McGregor  (Read 8694 times)

Offline chempat

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Re: Miranda McGregor
« Reply #27 on: Thursday 13 May 21 20:58 BST (UK) »
I applied for the Eric Brown marriage to Miranda in 1943 - because Eric should be the father of my starting point person.

However, I tried approaches to several trees on Ancestry, and someone has replied who appears to be closely related BUT I think they have the wrong information.  I might have put them off, so you could wait and see what happens as I had just asked one specific question and was rather amazed with the answer, so have asked for a little more if they have it.

Offline avm228

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Re: Miranda McGregor
« Reply #28 on: Thursday 13 May 21 21:17 BST (UK) »
Well, I’m more intrigued than ever now! Happy to await developments :)
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline chempat

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Re: Miranda McGregor
« Reply #29 on: Thursday 13 May 21 23:20 BST (UK) »
I have now had a reply from another closely related person.

She confirms/has been told, though without certificates, that Miranda was born to the first husband of Maidie, had 2 children from her(Miranda's) first marriage to Mr White in 1932, who were sent out of London at the start of the war, and then married again, but little knowledge thereafter.  Unfortunately no information of Miranda's death.

Offline avm228

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Re: Miranda McGregor
« Reply #30 on: Thursday 13 May 21 23:25 BST (UK) »
We do know from the divorce records that no children were born to Maidie and her first husband, Alfred Dodd, so if Miranda was born during that marriage she wasn’t fathered by Alfred. Interestingly his divorce petition makes no mention of her having had a child with JF MacGregor, despite that being rather persuasive evidence of adultery! That only seems to come up in a newspaper article about the evidence given in the divorce proceedings. Another article rather glossed over it, saying things had “gone too far” for her estranged marriage to be repaired.

Maidie does seem to have been really quite well-known, so perhaps this was about protecting her reputation to some extent?
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)


Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Miranda McGregor
« Reply #31 on: Friday 14 May 21 09:59 BST (UK) »
Avm228 it does seem strange that there is no mention of a child born to Maidie and first husband on the divorce proceedings  ???

On her sister Alice's divorce proceedings filed by her husband Herbert on 14 Sept 1911 
it mentions their 3 children and their dob’s………  (The children are with their father and Alice’s mother Margaret E PIM on 1911 census)

I wonder when the 1921 census is released whether it will hold any clues  :-\

As I've not found a death I've not entered full names from the London Electoral Register

M McGregor
Electoral Date:   1939
Street Address:   5 ,6 Colosseum Terrace
Ward or Division/Constituency:   St Pancras South West
County or Borough:   Camden
Other surnames at the same address

E W Brown & M Brown
Electoral Date:   1946
Street Address:   14 Werter Road
Ward or Division/Constituency:   Putney and Streatham
County or Borough:   Wandsworth
Other surnames at the same address

E W Brown & M Brown
Electoral Dates   1946/47/48/49
Street Address 93 Norroy Road
Ward or Division/Constituency:   Clapham, Putney and Streatham
County or Borough:   Wandsworth
other surnames at the same address



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Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Miranda McGregor
« Reply #32 on: Friday 14 May 21 10:22 BST (UK) »

M McGregor is showing on 1939 in St Pancras with a birth of 13/12/1912, living in a boarding house/hotel/whatever, a single typist.

Her name is changed to Brown, and a date of birth of 18/12/1918, plus various notes.


If the December 1918 dob is the correct one do you know when Alfred James Scott DODD left to go to Australia?

Alfred James Scott Dodd
Boys Grammar School, Teacher
Electoral Date:   1919
Electoral Place:   Maryborough, Wide Bay, Queensland, Australia

Alfred James Scott Dodd Death 23 Mar 1929
Cemetery:   Fremantle Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place:   Palmyra, Melville City, Western Australia
Has Bio?:   N
(findagrave)
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Offline avm228

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Re: Miranda McGregor
« Reply #33 on: Friday 14 May 21 10:47 BST (UK) »
I didn’t know Albert had gone to Australia!

As far as I could tell from the various sources covering the divorce, the early romance of Maidie and John followed roughly the following chronology.

1911 (December): Maidie meets John in Glasgow, where she is in panto, and spends time with him.
1912: Maidie spends a lot of time away from home, claiming to be visiting a “friend”.
1912 (December): Alfred goes to Liverpool where Maidie is in panto, and finds her cohabiting with John. She tells him she has had a child by John.
1913 (March): Alfred issues divorce petition on 18 March, relying on adultery between 10-17 March 1913.

NB I have seen a 1926 newspaper piece featuring a photo of Maidie and the twins, hinting at her engagement to Noel and saying she was recently divorced from her “first” husband (John). So perhaps Alfred was somewhat written out of her history.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline chempat

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Re: Miranda McGregor
« Reply #34 on: Monday 17 May 21 21:55 BST (UK) »
Not yet received the marriage certificate, but have got the letters of administration (not will) for Bertram Deacon Startup who died in 1978.

In 1960 Bertram married Miranda Startup/McGregor according to index. In 1978 the lady at the same address as Bertram is Mary Diana Startup.  There is a death for a Mary Diana Startup in 2012 in Kent born 1922.

So it would appear that Bertram married Mary Diana McGregor NOT Miranda in 1960. Mary Diana is using her original birth surname to marry.
Miranda McGregor in 1939 shows Brown surname added but not Startup - not conclusive but to be considered.
Why was the name Miranda used at marriage?  (I did not apply for this certificate)

Mary D Startup was showing on 192.com in Camberley in 2007 with her daughter from the Startup/McGregor (pre)marriage, and the daughter has married twice.  Did Mary Diana claim she was also known as Miranda?

Or am I even more mixed up?

Yes, I am.

The person I am trying to trace was born as Brown mmn Mcgregor, but then referred to as the elder daughter of Mr & Mrs B D Startup, because she cannot be if her mother is Miranda not Mary Diana.  Unless the newspaper report got confused also.

Offline chempat

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Re: Miranda McGregor
« Reply #35 on: Monday 17 May 21 22:13 BST (UK) »
Trees have Mary Diana dying in SA etc etc     Bother.