Author Topic: Translation from Latin please  (Read 772 times)

Online gedb2b

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Translation from Latin please
« on: Friday 14 May 21 11:30 BST (UK) »
I have four marriage records for different children with Paolo Sillato and Maria Borg named as parents but my very limited Latin seems to be telling me that at least one of them has been married before and that the person being married is of another father which could be right but I would like confirmation before going to far. GedB

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,226
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Translation from Latin please
« Reply #1 on: Friday 14 May 21 15:12 BST (UK) »
I've attempted part of it. Others will probably be along later to make sense of it.
First sentence says that after investigation the priest can't find an impediment to the marriage.
Next bit.
"... Joannem filium legatum, ac natlem quordan ? Fardinandi ? Calleja
et Rosa Borg olim jugalium, viduum ___ q.am? Annae  filiae Josephi
et Mariae Borg, sponsum ex una parte, et Palmam filiam virginen, (then a word crossed out)
(another word crossed out) et natlem Pauli Sillato, et Mariae Borg sponsam ex atten parte"

John legitimate son and born ___ of Fardinand Caleja
and Rosa Borg formerly married, widowed ___  ___ Anna daughter of Joseph
and Maria Borg, fiance on the one side, and Palma maiden daughter, (word crossed out)
(another word crossed out) and born of Paul Sillato and Maria Borg fiancee on the other side"

It's not clear to me who had been widowed nor who all those women with the Borg surname were.

For context, if they were Catholics, dispensations for 1st cousin marriages weren't granted except for  grave reasons and had to be obtained from Rome. Therefore, Rosa Borg was unlikely to have been a sister of the Maria Borg who was Palma's mother.

 

Cowban

Online gedb2b

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Translation from Latin please
« Reply #2 on: Friday 14 May 21 18:19 BST (UK) »
Hiya Maiden Stone thank you for the reply, based on your answer I have just been sorting through some other records and it would seem that you are pretty well spot on because John / Joannes / Giovanni Calleja was a widower when he married Palma Sillato, he was previously married to Anna Borg the daughter of Giuseppe and Maria Borg so this is probably the reason for the priest checking for any impediment. I am not sure where the priest got the name Rosa Borg because Ferdinando Calleja the father of John was married to Rosa Mifsud, I can only think he was getting as confused with the Borg family name as I was .
The note you put at the bottom was very interesting because I believe it is possible that the parents of Palma, Paolo Sillato and Maria Borg were related with Maria being the widowed sister-in-law of Paolo, I know this was illegal in England at that time so well possible in the RC church as well but as yet we have not found any marriage record so we cannot be sure.
Thank you once again really not sure what we would do without your expertise. - GedB

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,226
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Translation from Latin please
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 15 May 21 17:33 BST (UK) »
I believe it is possible that the parents of Palma, Paolo Sillato and Maria Borg were related with Maria being the widowed sister-in-law of Paolo, I know this was illegal in England at that time so well possible in the RC church as well but as yet we have not found any marriage record so we cannot be sure.
Thank you once again really not sure what we would do without your expertise. - GedB

Marrying one's sister-in-law was supposed to be a no-no. A sister-in-law was regarded the same as a sister. Husband and wife became "one flesh". Same procedure as for 1st cousins wanting to marry  - application for a dispensation was sent "upstairs" to Rome, citing a serious reason for marrying.

The clergyman named in the excerpt had the title praeceptor. It's not one I'm familiar with. I think he would have held a senior position in the parish or diocese. A cousin of one of my ancestors was a vicar general in a Catholic diocese in England in 2nd half of 19th century. A vicar general was similar to a dean in an Anglican diocese. Vicar general was number 2 in seniority, deputising for the bishop when required, and acted with the bishop's authority. He dealt with administration and matters of religious law (canon law). Duties included decisions on marriage dispensations.

I didn't attempt to translate the rest of the document so I don't know if it throws any more light on relationships.
One of the Latin experts may be able to decipher and translate the words I couldn't.
 
Cowban


Offline Bookbox

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,916
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Translation from Latin please (Completed with thanks)
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 15 May 21 20:08 BST (UK) »
Anno D(omi)ni 1838 die VIII. ejusdem

Joannes Callaja cum Palma Sillato

Denuntiabus præmissis tribus diebus festivis non continuis, nulloque impedim(en)ti

can(oni)co detecto, ego Joseph Debono Præceptus Cur[...?] Birchi[...?]s interrogavi in

ecclesia Joannem filium legit(im)um ac nat(ura)lem quor(un)dam Fardinandi Calleja,

et Rosæ Borg olim jugalium, viduum, tamen qu(æ)dam Annæ filiæ Josephi

et Mariæ Borg sponsum ex una parte, et Palmam filiam virginem [legitimam et
deleted]

nat(ural)am Pauli Sillato et Mariæ Borg sponsam ex altera parte,

meos parochianos, eorumque mutuo consensu habito sollemniter per ver(-)

ba de præsenti Matrimonio conjunxi in faciem ecclesiæ, præsentibus

testibus notis Pubblio Catajar, filio qu[...]dam Benigni, et Josepho Catajar ejus

filio de hac Terra, Quibus postea die sequenti de mea licentia [...?]

[...?] [...?] Can(onic)us D(ominus) Antonius Micallef in Missæ sacrificio benedixit



In the year of the Lord 1838, the 8th day of the same [month]
[marginated] Giovanni Callaja and Palma Sillato

The announcements having been made on three non-successive[?] Sundays and no canonical impediment having been found, I, Giuseppe Debono[?], [parish priest of Birchicara?] questioned in church Giovanni (the lawful and natural son of a certain Ferdinando Calleja and Rosa Borg, formerly married), the widower of a certain Anna (daughter of Giuseppe and Maria Borg), the bridegroom, on the one part; and Palma (the [lawful and deleted] natural and maiden daughter of Paolo Sillato and Maria Borg), the bride, on the other part, my parishioners; and when their mutual understanding was given, I solemnly joined them in marriage with the customary words, in the face of the church/congregation, in the presence of known witnesses – Pubblio[?] Catajar (the son of a certain Benigno), and Giuseppe Catajar (his son), of this district; afterwards, on the following day and with my permission, D. Antonio Micallef [...?] gave them the blessing [during the celebration?] of Mass.

I can't decipher the description of the clergyman at the end.

For the Latin phrase in Missæ sacrificio, Maiden Stone may be able to suggest a better translation?

No impediment has been found, and there is no mention of a dispensation, so it seems unlikely that Giovanni’s wives were sisters – unless the rules in Malta were different?

Instead, I wonder if Giovanni's former wife Anna was the daughter of a Joseph Borg and a Maria (no surname stated)? Just a suggestion.

As ‘lawful’ has been deleted in relation to Palma Sillato, perhaps her parents were not married (unless you already know otherwise)? Just another suggestion.

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,226
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Translation from Latin please (Completed with thanks)
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 16 May 21 10:30 BST (UK) »
For the Latin phrase in Missæ sacrificio, Maiden Stone may be able to suggest a better translation?

The sacrifice of the Mass. The holy sacrifice of the Mass is a phrase used in prayers.
Cowban

Offline Bookbox

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,916
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Translation from Latin please (Completed with thanks)
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 16 May 21 10:42 BST (UK) »
For the Latin phrase in Missæ sacrificio, Maiden Stone may be able to suggest a better translation?

The sacrifice of the Mass. The holy sacrifice of the Mass is a phrase used in prayers.

Thanks for the clarification.

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,226
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Translation from Latin please
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 16 May 21 12:13 BST (UK) »
Marrying one's sister-in-law was supposed to be a no-no. A sister-in-law was regarded the same as a sister. Husband and wife became "one flesh".
 

Famous example Henry 8th & Catherine of Aragon, widow of Arthur, Henry's brother. The rest is history  :(
Cowban

Online gedb2b

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Translation from Latin please
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 16 May 21 16:46 BST (UK) »
Thank you both so much things are quite a bit clearer now, I have some records for Giovanni and Ferdinando that i need to look at more closely now. The final comment Bookbox made about the word lawful being crossed out and her parents maybe were not married actually makes a lot of sense with our searches, i have attached a really poor copy of an 1808 baptism record that I believe is the elder sister of Palma, but cannot see if it says illegitimate anywhere, maybe I am looking in the wrong place though, i will also dig out some other marriage records for siblings of Palma to see if that word turns up anywhere - Thank you GedB