Author Topic: Seaching PRs and came across these symbols  (Read 1366 times)

Offline Sandblown

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Seaching PRs and came across these symbols
« Reply #27 on: Friday 21 May 21 23:10 BST (UK) »
Jut viewed the Parish Record on Ancestry, and the Record portion shown in the initial Post is for March 30th  1701, the first Baptism for the begining of that year, after March the 25th 1701. March the 24th was the end of the year for 1700.

The Posters Ancester, John Sçratchard, appears further down the Record, with a Baptism Date of Wednesday (Planet Mercury Symbol) the 9th of December 1702.

The first Baptism undertaken for 1702 took place on the 4th April, after the end of the following March 24th 1701. i.e. the Jullian Year is March 25th to March 24th (confusing I know!)

Kirkham, Garlick, Worthington, Shaw, Bamber. Fylde Coast
Naylor/Nailor, Lyons, Wilkinson. Nottinghamshire/Derbyshire
Redfern. Cheshire/Derbyshire
LeFebvere, Lincolnshire

Offline Guy Etchells

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,632
    • View Profile
Re: Seaching PRs and came across these symbols
« Reply #28 on: Saturday 22 May 21 06:21 BST (UK) »
I have checked again using a synoptic calendar (i.e. one showing Julian & Gregorian dates (SC)) after reading the comments and added the SC days accordingly on the lines beginning SC :
I used this calendar http://5ko.free.fr/en/jul.php?y=1702
Previously I had used this calendar http://5ko.free.fr/en/year.php?y=1702
Using this method the days line up better but still not precisely.

Baptism Register for months in 1702 with the Julian days added as shown on a  synoptic calendar.

March 30 :  Thursday, symbol shown Sonntag (Sunday) incorrect if denoting day of the week
SC : Monday
April 6  :     Thursday, symbol shown Sonntag (Sunday) incorrect if denoting day of the week
SC : Monday
April 16 :    Sunday, symbol shown Mittwoch (Friday) incorrect if denoting day of the week
SC : Thursday
April 30 :    Sunday, symbol shown Mittwoch (Friday) incorrect if denoting day of the week
SC : Thursday
May 11  :    Thursday, symbol shown Sonntag (Sunday) incorrect if denoting day of the week
SC : Monday
May 29  :    Monday, symbol shown Mittwoch (Friday) incorrect if denoting day of the week
SC : Friday
June 14  :    Wednesday, symbol shown Donnerstag  (Thursday)  incorrect if denoting day of the week
SC : Sunday
June 22  :    Thursday, symbol shown Sonntag (Sunday) incorrect if denoting day of the week
SC : Monday
July 8     :    Saturday,  symbol shown shown Mittwoch (Friday) incorrect if denoting day of the week.
SC : Wednesday

Cheers
Guy
http://anguline.co.uk/Framland/index.htm   The site that gives you facts not promises!
http://burial-inscriptions.co.uk Tombstones & Monumental Inscriptions.

As we have gained from the past, we owe the future a debt, which we pay by sharing today.

Offline Sandblown

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Seaching PRs and came across these symbols
« Reply #29 on: Saturday 22 May 21 07:29 BST (UK) »
I have checked again using a synoptic calendar (i.e. one showing Julian & Gregorian dates (SC)) after reading the comments and added the SC days accordingly on the lines beginning SC :
I used this calendar http://5ko.free.fr/en/jul.php?y=1702
Previously I had used this calendar http://5ko.free.fr/en/year.php?y=1702
Using this method the days line up better but still not precisely.

Baptism Register for months in 1702 with the Julian days added as shown on a  synoptic calendar.

Guy, Have You checked the Julian Days of the Week for 1701, as that is the Year appearing on  the posted Parish Record extract, and not 1702. Refer to My Post above.

Mittwoch (Mid Week) is the German Day of the Week, for Wednesday.
Kirkham, Garlick, Worthington, Shaw, Bamber. Fylde Coast
Naylor/Nailor, Lyons, Wilkinson. Nottinghamshire/Derbyshire
Redfern. Cheshire/Derbyshire
LeFebvere, Lincolnshire

Offline KGarrad

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,172
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Seaching PRs and came across these symbols
« Reply #30 on: Saturday 22 May 21 07:49 BST (UK) »
Mittwoch (Mid Week) is the German Day of the Week, for Wednesday.

As I said in reply #9 :D
And Andrew Tarr said in reply #12.

Schoolboy German comes in handy, sometimes ;)
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)


Offline Andrew Tarr

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,742
  • Wanted: Charles Percy Liversidge
    • View Profile
Re: Seaching PRs and came across these symbols
« Reply #31 on: Saturday 22 May 21 09:21 BST (UK) »
Schoolboy German comes in handy, sometimes ;)

As I also suggested, schoolboy French shows things better than German :

Monday (Lundi);  Tuesday (Mardi: Mars);  Wednesday (Mercredi);  Thursday (Jeudi: Jupiter);  Friday (Vendredi: Venus).

I checked the perpetual calendar linked above (#20) and most of the dates in the OP matched for 1701.  It's not clear whether that corresponds to '1701' starting or ending in March - which is why transcribers of old records have to show either/or.
Tarr, Tydeman, Liversidge, Bartlett, Young

Offline Sandblown

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Seaching PRs and came across these symbols
« Reply #32 on: Saturday 22 May 21 09:30 BST (UK) »
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/2256/images/32355_249444-00120?usePUB=true&_phsrc=Lel1&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=8680480

The above Link is for the actual Parish Record on Ancestry. The Poster's Screen Shot is from the top of the PR, which commenced in 1701. The Year 1702, as quoted by the Poster, has been misleading, Us all, since the start of this Thread !
Kirkham, Garlick, Worthington, Shaw, Bamber. Fylde Coast
Naylor/Nailor, Lyons, Wilkinson. Nottinghamshire/Derbyshire
Redfern. Cheshire/Derbyshire
LeFebvere, Lincolnshire

Offline Guy Etchells

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,632
    • View Profile
Re: Seaching PRs and came across these symbols
« Reply #33 on: Saturday 22 May 21 09:56 BST (UK) »
I have checked again using a synoptic calendar (i.e. one showing Julian & Gregorian dates (SC)) after reading the comments and added the SC days accordingly on the lines beginning SC :
I used this calendar http://5ko.free.fr/en/jul.php?y=1702
Previously I had used this calendar http://5ko.free.fr/en/year.php?y=1702
Using this method the days line up better but still not precisely.

Baptism Register for months in 1702 with the Julian days added as shown on a  synoptic calendar.

Guy, Have You checked the Julian Days of the Week for 1701, as that is the Year appearing on  the posted Parish Record extract, and not 1702. Refer to My Post above.

Mittwoch (Mid Week) is the German Day of the Week, for Wednesday.

No I was going by the date the original poster gave.
Cheers
Guy
http://anguline.co.uk/Framland/index.htm   The site that gives you facts not promises!
http://burial-inscriptions.co.uk Tombstones & Monumental Inscriptions.

As we have gained from the past, we owe the future a debt, which we pay by sharing today.

Offline mezentia

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 829
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Seaching PRs and came across these symbols
« Reply #34 on: Saturday 22 May 21 19:47 BST (UK) »
Daughter and granddaughter have returned to their home. Peace, Quiet and Calm have re-emerged from the corners whence they hid. Good Order has finished chasing her capricious sister Dis around the house and they now sit at either end of the settee, on the arms, eying each other like a pair of wary cats on a fence waiting to see who first blinks. Lego, crayons, pencils, tissues, dolls’ clothes and various other items of craft material have been rescued from beneath feet, chairs, tables, stools, sofas, beds and stored away ready for the next visit. The Study chair is back at its correct height, and the computer screens back in their proper orientation;  Rootschat is now available on a screen suitable for reading properly.

First, it was never my intention to mislead. As I posted originally, the original baptism I was investigating was for 1702, but wary of copyright infringements, I only clipped a small section of the page to illustrate my question.

To Andrew, I was intrigued by djm297’s post in reference to planetary hours, and as the table on Wikipedia referred to in his post used the same symbols, it seemed plausible that the planetary hour symbols may be related to those on the PR entries.

However, I think we can finally put this mystery to bed. I have since heard from an Adel historian, Val Crompton, that

Quote
in 1685, one Thomas Kirke of Cookridge Hall (1650-1706), undertook to take 'better care of the registers'. He wrote out a system for keeping them more orderly (including a symbol for each weekday) and helped the Parish Clerk, Joseph Athey, write up the entries. Ref. Rector Draper writing in 1908, p103 of 'Adel and its Norman Church'.

I have found an online copy of the book, and the relevant passage is: 

Quote
Dr. Whitaker writing in 1816, when he issued the second edition of the “ Ducatus,” writes : “That the wood so celebrated a century ago has happily relapsed into something approaching its primeval state, the silva pastura of Domesday.” But we at the present day may be allowed a little pleasure in the thought that even now, more than 200 years after Thomas Kirke’s decease, we are still able to see the traces of that stone border round his oval ‘center,’ which used to give him so much pleasure, and where he and his numerous friends would often stand and gaze down the many vistas which his skill had contrived.

He must have been a man of many interests and fine capacity, for besides the cares of family he spent minute pains on copying the ill - written Registers, filling up gaps in them from the pocket - book of John Oglethorpe ( Parish Clerk, buried 1673 ), which he says, “I mett with in the hands of Will. Tate, of Addle ( 1702 ).” So zealous was he for the better care of the Registers that he himself wrote out a system for keeping them ‘more orderly,’ and for a time undertook to help Joseph Athey, who was ‘clark,’ and of whom he says:--

“The Third Book begins in May 1680, by Joseph Athey, Clark, wch is very ill performed : A very bad hand, uncertain figures, & ill method. In the year 1685 I undertooke to put itt in A better method, and writt part of it myselfe, but hee woud mix with me, soe I left it off. — T. K. ”

In a previous note of his about the same subject he had said :

“ In Aprill comes in a pretty little hand ( perhaps Mr . Clarkson' s ), but itt is but in some pages, yº rest are mixed with differing hands ; ye last of the small hand is in 1650. After yt a very bad hand finishes ye book about ye year 1654 - 5.”

These notes reveal the man himself and are all of a piece with the orderly mind and the kindly heart of him who laid out his woods and invited his friends and even stray travellers to enjoy them with him.


Val also sent an image from what I assume is a transcription of the Adel PRs. Therefore, notwitstanding the apparent errors as identified by previous contributors to this thread, the symbols refer to days.

May I once again thank all those taking the time and effort to contribute to this thread, it made extremely interesting reading, and much to my dear wife's consternation, set me off on yet another research trail.  ;D ;D
Anderson - Leics., Yorks.; Attwood - Worcs., Staffs.,  Salop; Baylis - Worcs.; Beach/Bache - Worcs., Staffs., Salop; Bills - Devon, Worcs.<br />Dovey - Worcs., Staff., Salop; Gill - Worcs.; Hampton - Worcs., Staffs.; Hancox/Hancocks - Worcs., Staffs.<br />Hill - Worcs., Staffs., Salop; Sherwood - Worcs., Staffs.; Stonyer - Worcs., Staff., Salop, Essex<br />Woodall - Worcs., Staffs.; Potter - Essex.