Author Topic: Agnes Foley Middlesex  (Read 1247 times)

Offline rosie99

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Re: Agnes Foley Middlesex
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 22 May 21 11:28 BST (UK) »
Does the birth certificate give an occupation for Agnes. 

Is she living with the Smith's in 1938
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Offline Pete Hatt

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Re: Agnes Foley Middlesex
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 22 May 21 11:39 BST (UK) »
She was indeed living with the Smiths and it giver her occupation at a domestic servant. We have been in contact with the only remaining relative who's mother was living there at the time. Sadly she hasn't been able to help us out with any information regarding Agnes. Strangle though my Father was given the same middle name of one of the sons who lived there at the time. We thought he may have been the father and we have been sent a picture of him and he is so contrasting to my Father and bears no resemblance whatsoever. The DNA test my Father had done through my heritage suggests 42% Irish, so given her name being Irish we are pretty certain she either came over from Ireland to give birth to my Father or was from a local Irish family.

Offline rosie99

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Re: Agnes Foley Middlesex
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 22 May 21 12:16 BST (UK) »
Just posting in case it is later relevant - date of birth matches 1939 information   
Death
Agnes Bradshaw
Birth   23 Jan 1905
Death Oct 1976 Southwark, Greater London

There appears to be a child born to that couple shortly after they married.  She would have been in her early 40's when she gave birth
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Offline Pete Hatt

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Re: Agnes Foley Middlesex
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 22 May 21 12:25 BST (UK) »
Hi Rosie, I think we can safely rule her out as on my Fathers adoption order it states she was an unmarried mother. There was also an age limit on the unmarried mothers home in Finsbury of 30. What were are trying to do is to both find her age and what happened to her after she left Harrow in 1938.


Offline rosie99

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Re: Agnes Foley Middlesex
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 22 May 21 13:21 BST (UK) »
I would not rule her out that easily

She would only have been a couple of years over the homes age limit when she gave birth, I doubt she would have had to provide evidence of her age so could have 'stretched the truth'. 

She was showing as single in 1939 so would have been unmarried when she gave birth c1937.

She had a child after 1939

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Offline AMBLY

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Re: Agnes Foley Middlesex
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 22 May 21 22:30 BST (UK) »
Hi,

I agree with Rosie.   Agnes Foley adjusting  her age from say, 32 to 29 in 1937 in order to avail herself of the help she needed, would most definitely be within the realms of possibility.

There were twin sons at that address, 16 Newquay, is that right - GD and CA -  born 1913? And is the woman in the household  with the very Irish Catholic name Mary Teresa, their mother?

Just for reference I'm wondering what investigation have you done into them?  There could well be a familial connection between them and Agnes Foley. For example, what are the details of them in the 1939 Register.  We can't post the information here ourselves (Rootschat copyright rules) but you can, if you have it, provide some detail.

Sometimes a lateral approach can uncover important clues...  ;D

Cheers
AMBLY
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"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

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    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline Pete Hatt

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Re: Agnes Foley Middlesex
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 23 May 21 08:39 BST (UK) »
Hi Rosie and Ambly,

My apologies as I miss read what you originally said, thought you meant she was in her early 40s when she gave birth. Yes I see what you mean now. Since we had the results back from my heritage and it ruling out any link to what we thought was his half brother and the Agnes Foley we believed to be his mother. It does question the age of 19 or rather rules it out, as he was always told that was her age. What it does do now is open up a rather larger age range. Well on my Fathers original records it says that she was a domestic servant at 16 Newquay Gardens Harrow. The head of the house at that time was indeed Mary Teresa Smith and her two twin sons Geoffrey Denis Smith and Clifford Aubrey Smith, there was also a daughter of around 14 and she was at a boarding school only a few miles up the road. The Smiths moved out in the September of 1939, Agnes didn't go with them. The Smiths first rented the house in 1934 and the first time Agnes Foley appeared on the electoral roll was October 1938. This could mean she was there prior to 1938 and hadn't come of age as she would have had to be 21 in those days to be eligible to vote or it could mean she genuinely came in 1937. It throws for us two theory's. One, she was placed there by the Church of England as they found pregnant catholic girls homes to live in prior to giving birth and jobs, these usually being a domestic servant, they stayed with the families until 6 weeks before the birth and then moved into the unmarried mothers home, namely the one I mentioned, as it does also give her address as 2 Myddelton Square as residence of the informant on my Fathers birth certificate. Theory number two, being that she did know the family and she stayed with them until she had the baby and then returned to Harrow for a further 12 months and moved on. We did also wonder if one of the twins was indeed the Father of my Father, as strangely my Father was given the middle name Denis the same spelling as Geoffrey Denis. We have now managed to trace Geoffrey's niece down and she has kindly sent us a picture of Geoffrey and he bears no resemblance to my Father, not to say he isn't the Father as that means nothing. Im a spit of my Father as is my Grandson of me, which does suggest the y chromosome runs strong through our male side of the family. The fortunate thing is the niece we are now talking to has had a DNA test on ancestry, I have too and currently waiting for the results. From my Fathers results we have now managed to rule out two Agnes Foleys we have traced some close relatives who have also had DNA tests. Unfortunately the niece couldn't say if her grandmother knew Agnes prior to her living there. The only thing she did say was that the family were living in Spain and returned to the Uk in the early 1930s. The mother did also go under another name Habbijam. Just for the record on my Fathers DNA test it showed him as being 42% Celtic, namely Irish, Scots or Welsh and with a name like Foley are assumption his birth mother was Irish. If you both could help in anyway, we as a family would be so grateful. Hope this additional information helps and please feel free to ask me in any further questions. We have gone down many avenues trying to find some information. It so sad that all his adoption records have been destroyed and no court records exist either, only the court entry books, which sadly only showed his mothers name. A date of birth would crack this search, unfortunately the paper trail seems to be missing. The last thing I will share with you is that on the letter from The Adoptions Society to my Nan was that he had been baptised on 1/1/1938 at a church in North Harrow. Alas we have been able to trace this either.

Offline rosie99

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Re: Agnes Foley Middlesex
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 23 May 21 11:25 BST (UK) »
The Agnes that I have mentioned who is in Harrow bn c1905 single with occupation that is similar to the Agnes you are looking for was in her early 40's when she had a child after her marriage in the 1940's,  so it is possible that she gave birth to your father age approx 32 as a single woman.  She was not resident prior to 1939 at the address she is at in 1939.

I am not sure that it would necessarily help to get her marriage certificate other than to ascertain the name and occupation of her father though it could just say deceased.  Maybe it
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Offline jonw65

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Re: Agnes Foley Middlesex
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 23 May 21 11:40 BST (UK) »
There's an Agnes Foley at 86 Marlborough Hill, Harrow, on the 1939 electoral register. Not listed the previous year. Is with Jessie Louisa McMeekin (I think nee Jones, widow of Malcolm)
I can't find the address - or Jessie - in the 1939 Register.

Agnes born 1905 at 198 High Street, Harrow (1939 Register, free index). I haven't been able to find that address in the electoral registers for 1938, 1939! Seems to have changed polling districts, and ancestry have chopped Harrow up into little bits. Has it been found by anyone? Rosie?

There are also several Agnes Foleys born in Scotland in the 1910's. See ScotlandsPeople.

A few items for the period pertaining to St Faith's Home among the records of Holy Redeemer church, Exmouth Market, held at the LMA.
Nothing very promising, a couple of reports, 25 Oct 1937 - 25 Jan 1938
https://search.lma.gov.uk/LMA_DOC/P76_RED.PDF