O'Brien killed on railway

[pavane]

Looks like a copy of the marriage certificate costs £14 and no guarantee that her father is named? Can't do that at present - is there a cheaper way?

[heywood]

Frank’s birth details will be available by PDF for, I think, £7.
Marriage certificate £11 https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate

[pavane]

OK thanks - but it's £14 if you don't have the GRO index reference (which I think I can find from FreeBMD).
The big question now is whether "(female) Burke" on the birth certificate is the same person as Esther O'Brien on the marriage certificate. Not sure that seeing them would help.
There didn't seem to be many census possibilities for a Burke in Neath in 1911.
The family understanding is that Esther was Frank's mother - but they may be wrong.
The birth of John Creek to Francis and "O'Brien" in 1916 (mentioned above) would support this, but she would already have been 50 by then. Not surprisingly, no-one in the family knew of this birth.

[heywood]

Yes the reference number is available - Free BMD
1918 Neath - March quarter vol 11a g 1336

You write:
The big question now is whether "(female) Burke" on the birth certificate is the same person as Esther O'Brien on the marriage certificate. Not sure that seeing them would help.

it would help by giving you Francis’s mother, surely?

I can’t see a death for a female Creek or Burke after that birth and before his marriage to Esther.
If I have the right Francis he shows as married in 1911 (but wrong age) and widowed in 1901. There is a death though for that wife.

[pavane]

Thanks for that, I did see it too.
I don't know about this other Francis - where was he? probably not the same one.

[heywood]

Is this your Francis?

Marriage of Francis Hooper Creek Bristol 1900 to Kate Presley.
(There is an Emily Kate in earlier census).
Death February 1901 Emily Kate Creek, Radstock, Somerset

There is a birth 1st quarter, 1901 , Clutton, Somerset.
Mary Eveline Creek mmn Presley.
I can’t see this child later.

1901 5057/37/13
Francis Creek, 18 yrs widower b Neath
living with father William and sister Silvina.

1911
Francis Creek , 38 yrs married

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWX6-2RM

Military record of Francis Hooper Creek refers, I think, to ‘unmarried wife,’ Esther O’Brien.

[pavane]

Thank you, that is interesting.
I am not sure about the Bristol/Somerset Francis, but probably a member of the same family. Francis Creek's grandmother was Frances Hooper (Married to Thomas Creek), and I think several descendants had Hooper as middle names.
Francis's father William Creek and his wife Ann Berryman moved to Neath sometime before 1857, and all of their children were born in South Wales.
Do you have a date for that military record? Or where can I see it?

[heywood]

I didn’t see any other Francis Hooper and your Francis is an 18 yr old widower according to the census unless it is a mistake.

The Military record is 1916.

[pavane]

Well, it does seem that he could have married before!
Again, no-one in the family had heard that.
Thanks again for all your work

Where can I see that military record? I have no idea where to look.
Was it Northumberland Fusiliers, West Riding Regiment? He is the only one I found, but that doesn't seem likely for a Welsh resident. I'm not an expert on the military side though.