Author Topic: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.  (Read 708 times)

Offline mckha489

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1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
« on: Tuesday 25 May 21 06:22 BST (UK) »
British History online ( https://www.british-history.ac.uk/topographical-hist-norfolk/vol5/pp495-502) says of St Mary's Church, Saxlingham Nethergate

"Gleane impales three garbs 2 and 1"

Gleane is the surname, but can anyone describe the rest of what I assume is a coat of arms to me?

Thank you.

Side tracked to a friendís very interesting Norfolk families. MORGAN, PRATT, HORNOR, SUCKLING, GLEANE etc. And in London DOWNES, du CROZ, MORGAN (same MORGANs as the Norwich lot)

Offline KGarrad

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Re: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 25 May 21 08:00 BST (UK) »
A Garbe is a wheat-sheaf.
"2 and 1" describes the wheat-sheaves in a row of 2 and a row of 1.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline KGarrad

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Re: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 25 May 21 08:10 BST (UK) »
Impaling: the meaning and object of the impaling or setting side by side two coats of arms or more in the same shield.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)


Offline KGarrad

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Re: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 25 May 21 08:23 BST (UK) »
Found a picture of "3 garbes 2 and 1".

Cumming clan of Scotland; but probably other sources, too.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline mckha489

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Re: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 25 May 21 08:36 BST (UK) »
Thank you KG. Now my brain is hurting!

I will have to consider that information.


Added, so if his father had a different coat of arms (ermine and 3 lions rampant) might this man be (for example) the wheat sheaf thing on one side and the ermine and lions on the other? 
Side tracked to a friendís very interesting Norfolk families. MORGAN, PRATT, HORNOR, SUCKLING, GLEANE etc. And in London DOWNES, du CROZ, MORGAN (same MORGANs as the Norwich lot)

Offline Kiltpin

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Re: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 25 May 21 10:03 BST (UK) »

"Gleane impales three garbs 2 and 1"

This is a marital arms. The husband (Gleane) is on the left as we see it and his wife (three garbs 2 and 1) is on the right. The original writer has omitted to tell us the blazon of Gleane's arms and expects us to know. There are some arms that are so well known that no blazon is required - England, Scotland, Wales for example. Gleane is not one of them. Luckily, The General Armoury has him listed - 

Ermine on a chief Sable three lions rampant Argent

The Gleane line and arms became extinct in 1745 when no further sons had been produced. The task now is to find out who Gleane married. Her father bore the "three garbs 2 and 1". Once she is known then the colours of her arms will be known and the task is complete. 

Regards 

Chas


Whannell - Eaton - Jackson
India - Scotland - Australia

Offline mckha489

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Re: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 25 May 21 10:22 BST (UK) »
You make it sound so easy  ;D ;D

 Leonard Gleane married someone named Anne. Trees have it that it was Anne Puckell but I havenít found the evidence.

Leonard was baptised 6 Dec 1587 , son of Sir Peter Glean (1564-1633).  And Maud or Matilda Suckling (1566-1631)

I think he was a haberdasher  (apprenticeship record)
by his burial he was ďGentĒ

One daughter was baptised 1636, and I think she was the youngest so the marriage must be a few years at least before that

Added ..I would expect the marriage to be in either Norfolk or Suffolk
Side tracked to a friendís very interesting Norfolk families. MORGAN, PRATT, HORNOR, SUCKLING, GLEANE etc. And in London DOWNES, du CROZ, MORGAN (same MORGANs as the Norwich lot)

Offline Kiltpin

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Re: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 25 May 21 10:55 BST (UK) »
You make it sound so easy  ;D ;D

 Leonard Gleane married someone named Anne. Trees have it that it was Anne Puckell but I havenít found the evidence.

Leonard was baptised 6 Dec 1587 , son of Sir Peter Glean (1564-1633).  And Maud or Matilda Suckling (1566-1631)

I think he was a haberdasher  (apprenticeship record)
by his burial he was ďGentĒ

One daughter was baptised 1636, and I think she was the youngest so the marriage must be a few years at least before that

Added ..I would expect the marriage to be in either Norfolk or Suffolk
I never said it was easy! An there will be many side-quests and rabbit holes to go down. 

The General Armoury has nothing for Puckell. For Puckle (Sussex) there is - 

"Gules three dexter hands couped Argent the fingers towards the nombril point." 

There are 2 Sucklings - 

Wootton, Norfolk - "Per pale Gules and Azure three bucks trippand Or." It does not say, but I would think that the bucks were in pale. 

London - "Sable a fess nebulee Argent guttee de sang between three elephant's heads Or." 

That does not help a lot, but this might give a clue - 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleane_baronets 

Regards 

Chas
Whannell - Eaton - Jackson
India - Scotland - Australia

Offline mckha489

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Re: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 25 May 21 10:59 BST (UK) »
That Wiki entry refers to the grandson of Sir  Peter who died 1633.
A nephew of Leonard whose burial I am looking at here.
Side tracked to a friendís very interesting Norfolk families. MORGAN, PRATT, HORNOR, SUCKLING, GLEANE etc. And in London DOWNES, du CROZ, MORGAN (same MORGANs as the Norwich lot)