Author Topic: Tips/advice for finding mysterious ancestor Sarah Mary Hayes  (Read 1298 times)

Offline Ahayes99

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 6
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Tips/advice for finding mysterious ancestor Sarah Mary Hayes
« on: Tuesday 25 May 21 13:54 BST (UK) »
Hi everyone, first time poster so apologies if posting this in the wrong place!

Have searched high and low to find some more information about my great grandmother Sarah Mary Hayes (born Williams).

Starting with what I do know:
- Married my great grandfather John Hayes in St Helens, Lancs, 1912. Marriage certificate gives her name as 'Sarah Williams' and lists her father as John Williams - deceased, miner. They had 4 children together before John died in 1919.
- She was still in St Helens in 1939 register, living with her son, John, my grandfather, and one of her daughters. Dob given as 12/09/1879. (Her name is given as 'Mary Hayes' here.)
- Died 1954, aged 74, in Ormskirk, Lancs. Registered as 'Sarah M. Hayes' - and death certificate signed by a 'J.S. Edwards Hayes' (son) of Homersfield, Harleston, Norfolk who was previously not known to our family. (Subsequently I've managed to find his marriage certificate - 1933 - which gives his age as 23, meaning he will have been born in 1910 before Sarah's marriage to John. Not sure of his biological parentage but he also lists John Hayes as his father on his marriage certificate.)

Beyond this - I'm stumped, given the ubiquitous surname! I can't find Sarah's birth record, nor can I find her in any census. I can't find the birth of J.S. Edwards Hayes registered c.1910, nor do I know where he was born or what name he'll have been registered with. It would be really great to get some pointers or hear from people who've encountered similar obstacles, and if there might be something I'm missing that could blow this line of our research open! It would be nice to understand the Edwards connection, and the link to Norfolk, but mainly I'm keen to know where both Sarah and her parents were born, and who they were, so I can continue to trace this line back.

Online rosie99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 41,948
  • ALFIE 2009 - 2021 (Rosbercon Sky's the Limit)
    • View Profile
Re: Tips/advice for finding mysterious ancestor Sarah Mary Hayes
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 25 May 21 14:23 BST (UK) »
Welcome to rootschat

What information does the 1912 marriage certificate give regarding abodes of Bride & Groom, also who were the witnesses

ADDED You mention J S E Hayes, have you located him in 1939 register to establish a date of birth
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Ahayes99

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 6
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Tips/advice for finding mysterious ancestor Sarah Mary Hayes
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 25 May 21 14:34 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the welcome and the reply!

Sarah lived at 30 Mount Street, St Helens at the time of their marriage.
John lived at 66 Cambridge Road, St Helens.

Witnesses to the wedding were John Neal and Maud Tickle - from my research, I think they both lived together at 57 Clyde Street at the time.

The marriage took place at a methodist chapel, rather than the Church used by many other members of the family (suggesting a whiff of scandal) and Maud Tickle's occupation in the 1911 census is 'chapel cleaner' which leads to a fairly depressing hypothesis, although it may be a coincidence.

Offline jonw65

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,704
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Tips/advice for finding mysterious ancestor Sarah Mary Hayes
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 25 May 21 14:37 BST (UK) »
J S E Hayes, have you located him in 1939 register to establish a date of birth

Welcome.
James S E Hayes married Veronica M McClurg (born 1913)
What does the initial S stand for?
Veronica is in Doncaster in 1939?


Online emeltom

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,274
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Tips/advice for finding mysterious ancestor Sarah Mary Hayes
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 25 May 21 14:38 BST (UK) »
At the time of the 1912 marriage in St Helens John was 34 and Sarah 31. John's father was Richard and Sarah's John. Winesses were John Neal and Maud Tichle. Marriage was Primitive Methodist
Smith Tiplady Boulton Branthwaite King Miller Woolfall Bretherton Archer and many more

Online heywood

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 40,655
    • View Profile
Re: Tips/advice for finding mysterious ancestor Sarah Mary Hayes
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 25 May 21 14:41 BST (UK) »
J S E Hayes, have you located him in 1939 register to establish a date of birth

Welcome.
James S E Hayes married Veronica M McClurg (born 1913)
What does the initial S stand for?
Veronica is in Doncaster in 1939?

Thank you.  ;)
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Ahayes99

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 6
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Tips/advice for finding mysterious ancestor Sarah Mary Hayes
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 25 May 21 14:43 BST (UK) »
J S E Hayes, have you located him in 1939 register to establish a date of birth

Welcome.
James S E Hayes married Veronica M McClurg (born 1913)
What does the initial S stand for?
Veronica is in Doncaster in 1939?

Thank you! The 'J.S. ' is for 'James Stanley.'

Veronica is indeed in Doncaster in 1939 - but no sign of James. Their 4 children were registered in Prescot (registration district for St Helens) between 1934 and 1946 including children in both 1939 and 1940, which makes the Doncaster thing another strange link.

Online rosie99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 41,948
  • ALFIE 2009 - 2021 (Rosbercon Sky's the Limit)
    • View Profile
Re: Tips/advice for finding mysterious ancestor Sarah Mary Hayes
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 25 May 21 14:47 BST (UK) »
Birth in 1939 registered as Hayes and Edwards-Hayes
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline josey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,654
    • View Profile
Re: Tips/advice for finding mysterious ancestor Sarah Mary Hayes
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 25 May 21 14:54 BST (UK) »
FWIW there's a tree on ancestry with Sarah's parents & birth in Denbighshire, might be worth contacting tree owner & you can assess their sources. 

ADDED: This tree cites 1881 RG11; Piece: 5513; Folio: 110; Page: 16 & 1891 RG12; Piece: 4613; Folio: 26; Page: 22



Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON