Crumlin Road Presbyterian Church, Belfast

[Jon_ni]

cheers Aghadowey, I looked on their website but am not a member & don't have the book, most of my lot were C of I back to the early 1850, suggestion spouse may have been baptised Lurgan Presby mid 1820's - got to check that microfilm sometime. I did a compilation pdf of all the church lists in the online PRONI directories 1819-1899, used it a few times recently when people have asked about old records, surprised me there were more Presby churches in Belfast 1819 - 1870 than C of I & R.C. combined.

[jdchisim]

Thanks for all the responses.

I have contacted the Presbyterian Historical Society of Ireland via their message form. Once I receive a response I will post to advise of what is in existence, if anything, for use of others.

My paternal ancestors moved to Belfast in the late 1860s, early 1870s from the west (Antrim town direction). They settled in Old Park and this was the closest Presbyterian Church I could identify to that area. They later moved to Sailortown but there are no baptisms of their children in Sinclairs Seamens or York Street which makes me think that they have continued attending the church from that area. It's complicated by the 1901 census when they are then all Methodists. However, the school records for the children (in 1890s) indicate they are Presbyterians - this is all theoretical as to whether they attended there but there's evidence to support this.

Interesting that you mention marriage records not being registered. As there is a marriage record I cannot find in civil registration and all other records between the two parties indicate that they were married - recorded as married/widower on death records and burial records.

This record would have been from the 1880s so perhaps it's not what was meant by the comments made in the PRONI document.

[Elwyn Soutter]

Interesting that you mention marriage records not being registered. As there is a marriage record I cannot find in civil registration and all other records between the two parties indicate that they were married - recorded as married/widower on death records and burial records.

This record would have been from the 1880s so perhaps it's not what was meant by the comments made in the PRONI document.

It probably isn’t what the PRONI document means.  My understanding is that churches sent details of their marriages to the Registrar General every quarter.  So for up to 3 months, the church record might be the only official record. If the church was bombed in the meantime then those records may have been lost.  Presumably in most cases, the Minister would have sufficient information to get in touch with couples he had just married and  “reconstitute” the records from perhaps their own copy of the certificate. So I think this is a reference to records lost in 1941 rather than the 1880s.

If you want to post the details of the 1880s record, we can have a look for you. Sometimes mis-spellings or mis-transcriptions can make a record elusive.  The other thing to consider is whether the couple might have married outside Ireland eg in England or Scotland. I have also come across one where a couple from Belfast married in the Isle of Man. If you have exhausted Irish records it can be worth looking at those sorts of locations.

[jdchisim]

Yes, I thought as much.

Well that's a bit more positive.

No need to worry about it. It's 100% not in civil registration. I've asked many others including, staff in PRONI about it and was advised that it isn't there.

The question has been posed as to whether they married. The aforementioned death and burial records don't support that and I am working on the assumption that having 8 children out of wedlock with the same man was probably not that common.

It's just the case of exhausting all potential records.

[aghadowey]

Be sure not to narrow down the date of marriage too much- I know of one couple that got married when their 10th child was a baby and all ten children were baptised at the same time.

[aghadowey]

I recently found 2 events (a death & a marriage) that couldn't be found in civil registrations- no missing pages that weren't copied but in both cases there are large gaps in the dates where the ;missing' events took place (both had notices placed in the local newspaper).