Author Topic: Tracing Irish ancestors from the 1800s  (Read 1891 times)

Offline NevilleTB

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 83
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Tracing Irish ancestors from the 1800s
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 05 June 21 03:32 BST (UK) »
Part 2 and 3

Offline Dundee

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,056
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Tracing Irish ancestors from the 1800s
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 05 June 21 11:52 BST (UK) »
I have been doing some more digging and come up with a timeline.

No that is not right. Let's start again, I know it is a lot to take in.  You have your Sarahs mixed up  ;D

Annie STAFFORD married James Joseph MORAN in 1891.

557/1891
MORAN, JAMES J
STAFFORD, ANNIE
SYDNEY

Annie STAFFORD was born in Australia and her parents were Joseph John STAFFORD and Sarah Ann ELLIOT.

My post #10

Annie STAFFORD was born in Sydney and so was her mother Sarah.

Birth

STAFFORD, ANNIE
3166/1868
Father: JOSEPH J
Mother: SARAH A
GLEBE

Marriage

611/1865
STAFFORD,  JOSEPH JOHN
ELLIOTT, SARAH A
SYDNEY

Birth

ELLIOT SARAH A
3275/1843 V18433275 27A
Father: ANTHONY
Mother: ANN

Anthony and Ann's immigration record:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6LHJ-V9

Debra  :)

The details I gave here are supported by newspaper notices and the death details for Annie's mother Sarah STAFFORD nee ELLIOT.

The MORANs......

Annie's husband James Joseph MORAN was born in Ireland the son of Andrew and Mary.  Andrew had at least two sisters, Sarah and Eliza (so they were James' aunts) and they came out together on the Araminta.  Sarah MORAN married John GAYNOR and she is mentioned in the various death notices.  The parents of Andrew, Sarah and Eliza were James MORAN and Jane LYONS.

Debra  :)

Offline Dundee

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,056
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Tracing Irish ancestors from the 1800s
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 05 June 21 12:26 BST (UK) »
Ancestry has the immigration deposit books which show details of people in Australia who sponsor others to also emigrate from Ireland.

In January 1881, Sarah GAYNOR was refunded her deposit for those people who did not end up coming out.  They were Andrew MORAN (48), his wife Mary (47) and son Denis (15).  James (17) is noted as arriving on the Northampton in 1880.

You can see James on the manifest here, a 17 year old carpenter from Wicklow.

http://indexes.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/list.aspx?Page=NRS5316/4_4805/Northampton_24%20Dec%201880/4_480500089.jpg&No=14

Andrew and Mary's address in Ireland was 13 Dock Terrace, Bray, Wicklow.  The  reason for not emigrating was 'cannot satisfy regulations' and I would take a guess that they were too old for assisted passage.  For Denis the reason was 'declines emigrating'.

Obviously the three of them did end up coming as they all died in Australia.  I cannot see a specific record but if they paid for their own passage in full they may not be recorded by name.  I have given Andrew and Mary's death details already and Denis died quite young.

MORAN, DENNIS
16002/1891
Father: ANDREW
Mother: MARY
WOOLLAHRA

His funeral notices:

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13823158

Debra  :)


Offline Dundee

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,056
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Tracing Irish ancestors from the 1800s
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 05 June 21 12:36 BST (UK) »
Ancestry also has indexes for the Catholic church registers.  Sometimes the registers are poorly indexed and often recorded in Latin.

The marriage of Andrew MORAN, son of James MORAN and Jane LYONS, and Mary BYRNE, daughter of Denis BYRNE and Elizabeth McDOWELL (not sure of this surname)

Andreas MORAN

Event Type:    Marriage
Marriage Date:    27 Nov 1860
Marriage Place:    Bray, Ireland
Diocese:    Dublin
Father:    Jacobi MORAN
Mother:    Joanna LYONS

Spouse:    Maria BYRNE
Father: Dionysii BYRNE
Mother: Elizabetha McDOWELL?

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633720#page/12/mode/1up

Son James' baptism was recorded as Joseph James.

Josephus Jacobus MORAN

Event Type:    Baptism
Birth Date:    31 Dec 1861
Baptism Date:    5 Jan 1862
Baptism Place:    Bray, Wicklow, Ireland
Diocese:    Dublin
Father:    Andreas MORAN
Mother:    Maria BYRNE

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633719#page/40/mode/1up

Denis' baptism

Dionysius MORAN

Event Type:    Baptism
Birth Date:    7 Oct 1863
Baptism Date:    11 Oct 1863
Baptism Place:    Bray, Wicklow, Ireland
Diocese:    Dublin
Father:    Andreas MORAN
Mother:    Maria BYRNE

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633719#page/54/mode/1up

The main page for Bray parish registers.

https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0509

Andreas = Andrew
Jacobi = James
Dionysii/Dionysius and other variations = Denis

Debra  :)


Offline NevilleTB

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 83
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Tracing Irish ancestors from the 1800s
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 05 June 21 13:35 BST (UK) »
Hi Debra. Thanks for sorting that out. I was getting totally confused thinking Moran turned up in two generations out of three. I spent a few hours and only tonight tracked down James arriving on the Northumberland. I don't know how you seem able to find all this information that takes me hours to sometimes find. I was really pleased with myself to find this one fact, and you seem to have found another dozen. Still an amateur at this, unfortunately.

I have also been doing some research on the ship Araminta. It did a couple of voyages including in 1852 bringing a group of Scottish immigrants. It seems to have been a significant influence on the  Settree family as they named the family home, which became a guest house, Araminta. Need to go through passenger lists, but there was a sea captain, Cptn William Alfred Morrow Settree around that time so maybe there is a link there. Research for another day.

In the next two days, I will sit down and try to put it all together again. Tomorrow is my son's 30th so not going to get anything done then.

I am in Sydney. Where are you located? With a user name of Dundee, would I guess Scotland? Perhaps that is why I am getting worried that you are posting at 1 am and 2 am Sydney time.

Offline judb

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,987
    • View Profile
Re: Tracing Irish ancestors from the 1800s
« Reply #23 on: Monday 07 June 21 02:32 BST (UK) »
The time shown on Rootschat is UK time as that's where it's based. This post's time is listed as 2.32 and i can assure you that it's 11.32 here at my keyboard on AEST.

And you're right - Debra is a brilliant researcher who can often winkle out information that seems impossible to find.

I am in awe of many of the regulars on this Australia board who go to great lengths and use their experience to help others. 

Judith
DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline NevilleTB

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 83
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Tracing Irish ancestors from the 1800s
« Reply #24 on: Monday 07 June 21 03:48 BST (UK) »
Totally agree Judith. I thought when I started this project it was going to be fairly easy. How wrong was I? Without Debra I would have stayed in the dark.

There have been a few surprises. I found five convicts who I was directly related to, which was a few more than I knew about. Most surprising was that my great, great grandmother was a full blood aboriginal. Her father was a famous guy called King Bungaree who was a liaison with the governor and the various aboriginal tribes around Sydney. I am 74 and it took me this long to find out. I suspect it was the skeleton in the closet with the family but fortunately, attitudes change. What else awaits me???

Offline NevilleTB

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 83
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Tracing Irish ancestors from the 1800s
« Reply #25 on: Monday 07 June 21 09:41 BST (UK) »
Working my way through the amazing information Debra has provided. Attached is what I think is the direct lines from me. Still filling in the blanks but it seems to fit.

I am using Myheritage so if anyone is interested go to https://www.myheritage.com/site-family-tree-806242221/turbit?newTree=&rootIndividualID=1500004

Will keep posting until I am happy that I have dug out most of the information and got the people and dates right.

Thanks to those who have helped.

Offline NevilleTB

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 83
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Tracing Irish ancestors from the 1800s
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 09 June 21 13:28 BST (UK) »
After a lot of analysing the three pages of posts, I think I have the sequence sorted. I have created a document with what I have found.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/utayfk1o7cfb60c/JamesJosephMoranAndAnnieStafford.pdf?dl=0
Thanks to those who have helped particularly Debra. I have no idea how you do it, but you found details I never would have.
Of course, any further details anyone can find would be appreciated, but also this link might help people tracing the same tree. I now move onto the next challenge.