Searching for African American ancestor

[Ruskie]

Sometimes “getting off the track” and searching sideways can lead to breakthroughs. Surely looking at the DNA results is not off track anyway?  What percentage DNA do you share with your high American matches?

Your ancestor was Australian aboriginal / African (American)? Did she marry a white man? Don’t necessarily assume there are no records of marriages, births etc. Several episodes of WDYTYA have shown otherwise, though I understand it may not have been the norm.

You say that you have seen records of your family but are not allowed to view them “without permission from …” Have to attempted to get that permission?

Regarding your family tree, you say there were three men in different branches who were described as having African heritage. Can you clarify please?

You seem a bit irritated by all the questions, but there is usually a method to our madness. (However, apologies for re-asking about the age of your family tree which you had previously mentioned). 

[Erato]

Have you checked out San Francisco?  A lot of ships working in the Pacific passed through there.
Also Hawaii.

https://www.sfgenealogy.org/sf/

[Ruskie]

Where did you get the names of the two American ships mentioned in your first post? You say your man’s name doesn’t appear on either of them.

This Wikipedia article mentions a bit about the history of whaling in WA:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_in_Western_Australia

A few companies are named. It might be worth chasing up to see if any records survive.

[oldohiohome]

I did some looking in Newport, RI for Moloney and variants. I thought the first man listed here was the most interesting possibility.
----
1830 Census of Newport, Rhode Island
page 33. [image 63 at ancestry.com]

Sanders Mullone/Mullane
household: 1 white male 70 to 80

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XHP4-92H

I don't see him in 1820 in Newport. the 1820 census of Newport was recorded alphabetically by surname.

-----
1840 Census of Newport, Rhode Island
all white:
John Melloney (b 1800 to 1810 - )
  + __  (b 1800 to 1810 - )
   - female (b 1830-1835 - )
   - male   (b 1835-1840 - )
   - female (b 1835-1840 - )


Patrick Melloney (b 1800 to 1810 - )
  + __  (b 1800 to 1810 - )
   - female (b 1830-1835 - ) 
   - male   (b 1835-1840 - )

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XHYB-8FN

-----------
death of an Ann Mulooney indexed on familysearch, with some added information from ancestry.
(c 8 Aug 1857 - 8 Feb 1857, Newport), father: John Mulooney, "kin 2: Wm Springer" -

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QL92-TBLF
she could be a daughter of John Melloney on the 1840 census.

---------
This lady could be the widow of John or Patrick. found this on ancestry.com
1865 Rhode Island Census, Newport, Ward 5, family 2137 - all one household

Maloney
   Ann, 65, born in Ireland, cannot read or write, housekeeper
Murry,
   Ann, 22,
   John, 15
   Mary A, 12
   Ambrose, 10
   Sarah, 5
   Dorcas, 4
All the Murrys were born in Newport

----------
1863 Newport Directory
Patrick Maloney, laborer, home at 55 Thames
Timothy Maloney, grocer at 9 Tanner, home at same address

There weren't any Maloney variants in the 1856 Newport directory, and that is the earliest one at ancestry. I haven' looked elsewhere yet.

----------
and for New Bedford, Massachusetts:

1820 Census - I didn't find any Moloneys in New Bedford, Massachusetts. the names are listed alphabetically.

on the 1830 Census of New Bedford the names are not listed alphabetically. there are 102 pages. I didn't go through them. you could browse them at familysearch if you want.

[majm]

Further to my earlier reply:   (add #26)


See the following website:
 https://www.wa.gov.au/service/justice/civil-law/searching-family-history


If you are seeking Western Australia BDM documents,  the general public can access historical certs, without needing permission from anyone:
   In Western Australia, historical certificates are available to:
•   Anyone (16 years of age or over) for births 100 years old or more
•   Anyone (16 years of age or over) for deaths 30 years old or more
•   Anyone (16 years of age or over) for marriages 75 years old or more.
In recognition of the fact that the fraudulent use of certificates reduces with the age of the record, the evidence-of-identity requirements are not required for the historical certificates stated above.


There is an important message on that website, it reads:
Please note some words in Open Era records may cause offence. In order to avoid causing offence, the copy you receive will be redacted unless you specifically ask for an un-redacted copy. By asking for an un-redacted copy, you accept that the copy you receive could contain words that may cause, or be capable of causing, offence to you or someone else who is aware of it.

https://bdm.justice.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx

RChat’s Resources Board for Western Australia
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369921.0

Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island Studies :
Western Australia: -
https://aiatsis.gov.au/family-history/where-get-help/western-australia


JM

[majm]

I wonder if all of Trove has been accessed, or only the newspapers section.  Anyway, just in case it has not been fully explored, I add the following links

https://www.nla.gov.au/blogs/trove/2016/01/19/aiatsis-on-trove

https://trove.nla.gov.au/landing/first-australians

https://trove.nla.gov.au/collection/aiatsis/abi   (ABI - Biographical Index - There are about 70,000 records in the ABI and it is being continuously updated from both historical and contemporary Australian Indigenous works.)

JM

[aithne]

Hello,
I’ve been searching for an ancestor of mine for a while though to be honest it was always in the too hard basket.
I’m not asking people here to look things up for me as i basically have nothing much to go on.
Due to the fact indigenous people in Australia didn’t have official records everything i know has been passed on through word of mouth.
I was always told i had African heritage, something i always believed but of course had no proof. The family tree that got passed around from about 40 years ago had three men listed in different branches saying “American whaler” or “American sealer”. Some (though not directly linked to me say “American Indian” or “Mexican Indian”).
One particular ancestor for me said “American Negro or “West African”.
My sisters and I have searched with the name we were given and haven’t come up with anyone who this man could be, until i found an American whaler with a similar name (probably pronounced the same but different spelling) being in the right area at the right time. We can’t seem to find anything on that man to rule him out. We’ve searched crew lists from New Bedford and New London etc and although there’s similar names none of them are the two names we’ve been told or that i found on the whaler’s index.
My dna matches connected with several people in the US, and one of them replied to my message saying it does look like we’re related 5 - 6 generations back which fits for this ancestor. They haven’t replied to my last message so i guess i won’t be getting help from that angle.
Since would have been born around 1820, and on a ship in 1840s with his daughter born in Western Australia about 1850, and because of slavery i’m guessing there probably weren’t records for him anyway, or for his parents.
I don’t know where else to look for information. If anyone can suggest where else to search that would be great but i’m wondering if, in your experienced opinions, yous think i should just let this one go. I guess i would like to know what his name was, and where he originated from in the US.  maybe i should just be content with the dna test showing the word of mouth stories were true.

You have stated several times when others have suggested resources " there are no written records" and you have also stated "I don’t want to keep focusing on the DNA stuff. It really doesn’t matter and it’s getting off the point of the thread." ...............So when written records don't exist or you can find no primary connecting records you have to accept like anyone else that is the end of research of that line......certainly now unless written records are 'found' and  become available in the future

Rootschaters are researchers, they find if available and research written records, you hve had several suggestions about where potentially to look all of which you have dismissed... you have to accept end of line!

I dismissed because i had already looked at them.
Or because it wasn’t relevant to what i was asking.

And no, it wasn’t the end of the line. We actually had a breakthrough today because i did was someone on here suggested i do and trawl through lists.
Luckily, i didn’t see or take your advice.

[aithne]

I did some looking in Newport, RI for Moloney and variants. I thought the first man listed here was the most interesting possibility.
----
1830 Census of Newport, Rhode Island
page 33. [image 63 at ancestry.com]

Sanders Mullone/Mullane
household: 1 white male 70 to 80

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XHP4-92H

I don't see him in 1820 in Newport. the 1820 census of Newport was recorded alphabetically by surname.

-----
1840 Census of Newport, Rhode Island
all white:
John Melloney (b 1800 to 1810 - )
  + __  (b 1800 to 1810 - )
   - female (b 1830-1835 - )
   - male   (b 1835-1840 - )
   - female (b 1835-1840 - )


Patrick Melloney (b 1800 to 1810 - )
  + __  (b 1800 to 1810 - )
   - female (b 1830-1835 - ) 
   - male   (b 1835-1840 - )

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XHYB-8FN

-----------
death of an Ann Mulooney indexed on familysearch, with some added information from ancestry.
(c 8 Aug 1857 - 8 Feb 1857, Newport), father: John Mulooney, "kin 2: Wm Springer" -

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QL92-TBLF
she could be a daughter of John Melloney on the 1840 census.

---------
This lady could be the widow of John or Patrick. found this on ancestry.com
1865 Rhode Island Census, Newport, Ward 5, family 2137 - all one household

Maloney
   Ann, 65, born in Ireland, cannot read or write, housekeeper
Murry,
   Ann, 22,
   John, 15
   Mary A, 12
   Ambrose, 10
   Sarah, 5
   Dorcas, 4
All the Murrys were born in Newport

----------
1863 Newport Directory
Patrick Maloney, laborer, home at 55 Thames
Timothy Maloney, grocer at 9 Tanner, home at same address

There weren't any Maloney variants in the 1856 Newport directory, and that is the earliest one at ancestry. I haven' looked elsewhere yet.

----------
and for New Bedford, Massachusetts:

1820 Census - I didn't find any Moloneys in New Bedford, Massachusetts. the names are listed alphabetically.

on the 1830 Census of New Bedford the names are not listed alphabetically. there are 102 pages. I didn't go through them. you could browse them at familysearch if you want.

Thank you for the effort. None of these are the person i’m looking for but i’m sure it might help someone else in the future

[aithne]

Sometimes “getting off the track” and searching sideways can lead to breakthroughs. Surely looking at the DNA results is not off track anyway?  What percentage DNA do you share with your high American matches?

Your ancestor was Australian aboriginal / African (American)? Did she marry a white man? Don’t necessarily assume there are no records of marriages, births etc. Several episodes of WDYTYA have shown otherwise, though I understand it may not have been the norm.

You say that you have seen records of your family but are not allowed to view them “without permission from …” Have to attempted to get that permission?

Regarding your family tree, you say there were three men in different branches who were described as having African heritage. Can you clarify please?

You seem a bit irritated by all the questions, but there is usually a method to our madness. (However, apologies for re-asking about the age of your family tree which you had previously mentioned). 

I’m fed up with the DNA questions because it’s not actually going to give me an answer any time soon. The dna is pretty irrelevant other than to say what we were always told is true. So I specifically asked not to keep focusing on the DNA but actual documents but yet it keeps coming back to dna, and yet people on here keep saying “take the dna test with a grain of salt”. So which is it? Is the dna the absolute vital or is it not really?
Right now, i’m not fussed about the dna because other family members are still waiting on their results which will hopefully tell us more but, it might not. And since i’m a woman, and this comes from my father i wasn’t looking for much there anyway.

My 3xg grandmother (Yorjup, Aboriginal name) had an Aboriginal mother (Yeates, Aboriginal name) and an African American whaler father. The family tree i inherited had two men listed as her father (John James Low and Somebody Mullane/y) she was known by both names. Both of these men were African American whalers. It was decided one was more likely her father than the other, but since the other was still connected to the family in a different way (his daughter married the other man’s supposed grandson) i have continued to search for that man as well because we can’t rule him out and he’s still the ancestor of some of my relations so i figured since i’m paying for an Ancestry subscription that i would find information for them as well.

Now, that 3xggrandmother (Yorjup) married a man whose father was a white man, also supposed to have been a whaler or sealer. We have been working on this one as well and discovered the family tree we inherited was wrong. We now don’t know who this whaler was but we have an idea of his name (inherited tree said Abby or Ebenezer harris) and he’s been confused with two other white men (sealer John Harris, absolutely horrendous man that we’ve now rules out and Ebenezer Harris a farmer originally from Kent but i’m not convinced he’s the right man although he was at the right place at the right time) I’ll look into this man later.

Then, my great grandfather apparently always said his parents were first cousins with their father’s being brothers. I ruled this out based on the fact my convict 4xggrandfather coming from Wales and the other man (Ebenezer Harris) assumed to be the other 4xggrandfather coming from Kent. But then i went back to a tree that had been written (and published in a book) showing 4xggrandmother had a sealer/whaler father (no actual name given, just says American) and not the head of the tribe. So now we’re working on the head of the tribe being her grandfather and the nameless assumed white but could have been black sealer/whaler being her father and the mystery of the other 3xggrandfather biological father (the Abby/Ebenezer person). But of course, no proof and probably wrong.

So that’s 4, and now you’re probably very confused.

As for the records, there are Native Welfare files. But they’re not official documents. My uncle signed permission for my sister to get them and they were given to my sister because someone in the office assumed my uncle was our father. I can’t get them unless my father signs permission for me to get them and i have no intention of ever speaking to that man. My uncle can’t sign for me to get them because he’s in the Phillipines and with borders closed he won’t be here anytime soon. Most of these documents have been destroyed, damaged in storage or are heavily redacted.
There are other documents that the government has but since these are tied to Native Title the government won’t let us have them. Apparently the Native Title lawyers can access them but we can’t get them or view them ourselves.

And again, there are NO records of marriages. It’s simply not how Aboriginal people do marriages. It’s still very much “shacking up”. This is the way it used to be and we still do it. I’m married tribal way to a man from Papua. We  don’t have a piece of paper saying we’re married and we did this because it’s the way of our ancestors. There are no marriage records for Yorjup or her parents. It just did not happen that way  and there might not have been consent involved, either. Not so much the whalers but the sealers were absolute scumbags who stole women and brutalised them. So there may not have been a “marriage” for her parents.